When the bevel is set......??

First off, I am very sorry if this has been asked AND answered over 100 times already. I have looked and looked and read... and read some more. It just isnt clicking or hasnt been explained in a way that I "get" yet. So, my question is, how do you know when the bevel is set, and you just need to touch up?
They way I understand it,if the bevel is set, you can cut arm hair, and from that point on you just need to smooth and polish the "groves" in the blade. yeah? or am I way off base?
If I got some new straights off of ebay, and they were "shave ready" (which I know they are not), they will cut arm hair, pass the tpt (I think) and seem to be realtively ok.... they just dont shave well. Is this a job for the norton 4k/8k? light strokes.. some polishing.
Or would you need to reset the bevel on somehting like this?
Again, sorry, I know.. totally a newb question. It just isnt clicking.
If anyone can dumb it down for me I'd really appreciate it!!

Setting the bevel is usually done on a 1k stone. IME, when I can saddle the razor I'm sharpening up to a single arm hair and it "pops" off, the bevel is set. You should be able to accomplish this on any part of the edge before you move up in grit.

If these are your first razors to hone, I would suggest sending one or two out. I would ask the person you're sending them to, to do two different things. With one razor, get it honed all the way to shave ready. On the second, get them to set the bevel and that's it. When you get them back, you'll have an idea of what "sharp" feels like on your thumb, what a bevel feels like on your thumb, and then you can try to replicate them with any other razors you have left.

Hope this helps.

thanks Maxi. I am contemplating sending one out, however, they were VERY cheap, and I am having a hard time wrapping my head around spending more on getting the razor sharp than I spent on the razor. Instead I think I may just buy a shave ready razor from a member here, for comparison (and to have at least one "nice" one) and keep working on my ebay razors.
In regards to the arm hair thing... they seem to "pop" now... on my arm. but on my face is a different story. doesnt shave well at all, and I called it quits after about 4 attempted passes.
So when you buy a new razor, is the bevel bad as well?? I guess I am stilll not quite getting it. Or, if it shaves arm/leg hair fairly well, just not the face, will a few pyramids on a norton 4/8 get her shaving somewhat nice?
I totally agree that having a basis for comparison, im just trying to understand a little better how to tell that the basics for a decent edge are there, so I can keep working on what I have.
Thanks again for the help!!

Umm...exactly what type of new razor did you get for cheap off ebay? I don't want to burst a bubble here but those razors might not be worth honing :)

Ive got one razor that cost more than a honing fee. The rest were less. I still sent a ouple out for honing just so i knew about where i needed to be.

Thats a good idea have one sent out and having the bevel set.

the brand is Beauty and Barber. I got three straights and a strop. cost $30, so all pieces being equal (in theory), the razors were $7.50 each.
certainly not super duper hight quality stuff there, but they are hollow ground carbon steel.
Don't worry about bursting my bubble, but please explain why they wouldn't be worth honing.

Touch up refers to a razor that was shaving last week and now isn't. setting a bevel is a 4k or 1k job, but the focus is on the shaping of the steel. To me focusing on the sharpness is complex. then after that I focus on sharpness. If I hone on 8k to achieve sharpness, but fail, I go back down to 4k. After 4k I stick with 8 or 12 k and focus on a light touch to achieve ultimate sharness. This leads to shavability, then shaving, then after a while, a touchup.

The most important thing I can share about bevel setting is that it is more about sculpting and less about sharpness. Go for a smooth chip less edge. Any time 8k fails I just drop down to 4K. No shame in that, just don't tell anyone.

iPad but I hope that helps a little.

There is that old saying about a person who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client. So the first question is how much do you know about this stuff. If the answer is not much I would say send it out. That way when it comes back you will have a shave ready razor and know what a good bevel looks like and that will be your comparison for the future.

In most circumstances people use a 1K or so to set a bevel however you can also use a 4K like the Norton. It will just take a little while longer. For many years that's what I used.

Off the 1K or 4K once your bevel is set you should be able to shave with it and get an acceptable shave. Maybe not comfort to write home about but it should work and you should be able to pop those arm hairs off. Then you go higher and refine the edge. Also if you have a magnifier the bevel should look nice and clean and even though perfectly even isn't a requirement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheeks

the brand is Beauty and Barber. I got three straights and a strop. cost $30, so all pieces being equal (in theory), the razors were $7.50 each.
certainly not super duper hight quality stuff there, but they are hollow ground carbon steel.
Don't worry about bursting my bubble, but please explain why they wouldn't be worth honing.

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I just did a quick check, and IMO, I'd put these in a drawer. Next, I'd check out the classifieds here and search for an affordable blade from on of the members. Many of them will be shave ready.

There are a number of brands listed in the Wiki, that are recommended to avoid. I hope I'm not being too frank here, but make sure that you're starting off with a quality product; that will definitely take out at least one variable for you.

I have honed a Beauty and Barber razor. The steel is not adequate for a razor and at least the one I honed was horribly ground and it took a long time to set the bevel properly. I've held a Beauty and Barber strop and I'm sorry to say that it too is useless.

Alright!! I bought crap! :boohoo:
lol

seriously though guys, thank you for being frank. Thats the only way I learn, and no hurt feelings here. So, the way I see it, I have three razors that should end up in a drawer... so if I mess em up trying to hone em, the consensus was that they were crap anyway. That just makes me feel less guilty about using them to learn a thing or two on.
I also didnt hear anyone say that you absolutely couldnt make them shave.... what I did hear was that someone did in fact hone one, it just took a while to set the bevel. good to know.
So, I suppose as it stands, I need to look for a good shave ready razor from here..... and I guess I need a new strop too?? (I did think that thing felt hokey, to say the least).
Oh well, you live and you learn.
I guess in the end, if I persist and do manage to get a good shave from one of these, it is just that much more of an accomplishment.

Education has a cost.

You can always use them to open letters or cut tape in your shop! :)

Seriously, take a wander over to the classifieds here and you'll find something in your price range.

Read the Wiki too. There is a mountain of excellent information in there, about purchasing a quality razor, shaving with it, and maintaining it.

Good luck,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheeks

Alright!! I bought crap! :boohoo:
lol

seriously though guys, thank you for being frank. Thats the only way I learn, and no hurt feelings here. So, the way I see it, I have three razors that should end up in a drawer... so if I mess em up trying to hone em, the consensus was that they were crap anyway. That just makes me feel less guilty about using them to learn a thing or two on.
I also didnt hear anyone say that you absolutely couldnt make them shave.... what I did hear was that someone did in fact hone one, it just took a while to set the bevel. good to know.
So, I suppose as it stands, I need to look for a good shave ready razor from here..... and I guess I need a new strop too?? (I did think that thing felt hokey, to say the least).
Oh well, you live and you learn.
I guess in the end, if I persist and do manage to get a good shave from one of these, it is just that much more of an accomplishment.

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If you persist in attempting to sharpen your razors, you'll never know whether your honing skills are at fault or whether the razors are substandard.

Information is power, and there is a bunch of information to be learned in the Wiki here, everything from which razors to avoid to honing, stropping, and shaving technique. All of this is very complicated and complex, and without the information you can glean here, you are at a disadvantage.

Another alternative is to buy a Dovo Shavette, a straight that uses DE blades snapped in half and inserted into the razor. They can be had for around $30. They are unforgiving, as you will read here, but their unforgiving nature will force you to refine your technique. With a Shavette, you'll know your blade is sharp and be able to focus instead on shaving and technique and move on from there.

Disclaimer: No, I am not a Dovo salesman, and I don't use mine anymore, but it got me started without having to worry about all the other stuff involved, like stropping and honing. I've gotten into all that now, with the kind assistance of many here, but I wouldn't have made it if it weren't for the start the Shavette gave me.

You have to start somewhere, and a sharp blade and confidence in its sharpness is a real benefit. I'd spend the time honing those razors on reading the Wiki here. You'll get better results and find all the answers to your questions there.

The answers are here too, feel free to ask. Good luck!