Narrow hone vs Wide hone

I would love to hear your opinions on this topic. I was having a conversation with a vendor friend of mine last night, and he was telling me about the popularity and subsuquent liquidity of narrow hones, i.e. (1.5"w x 7"L) or 40mmx200mm. Of course we're talking Naturals. I don't think anyone makes narrow hones...I could be wrong....

Anyway, I understand for certain grinds, blades, etc...A narrow hone can be a God send. You can lead with the Heel, and the Toe follows. They're good for smiling blades. But........

Can you not do this with a wider hone too? Is cost a factor? If the 40mm hone is half the price, I fully understand. My contention is that, Anything done on a narrow hone, can be done on a wider hone. Given the choice, Money not being a factor, I'd take the wider hone everytime.

What do you think?

narrow hones can be more portable, lighter, and held easier in the hand depending on what the user wants to do

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Originally Posted by zib

My contention is that, Anything done on a narrow hone, can be done on a wider hone.

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That has been my experience. Having both narrow and 3" wide hones I found that Once I got it down I could use the wider hone with the same stroke and accomplish the same job. So IMO the wider hone is more versatile than the narrow hone.

A couple of my stones are narrow. I went this way for cost and I wanted to try holding the stone. After a couple of times I am very used to it and have no trouble. I have one very narrow hone it was cut from a coticule. It is about 3/4" wide. I tried this purely to help learn where I am going wrong with my stroke. It is working, but I don't know if it is enough to cut a hone for.

Remember those Pontiac commercials?
The one that I really remember is E Aho Luala... But I couldn't find that on Youtube.

YouTube - Pontiac Grand Prix - Wider is Better - Ice Boats (1999) - 0:30 (USA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjowg...3CE5DB1699F172

I personally like bench size stones such as the naniwa or the Norton lines but I know the thin 40mm or even 30mm wide coticules are big right now with their owners, I do think price is one of the factors. Also Coticule users tend to hand hone which is a big factor. I actually ordered a 3x8 Coticule combo last week so I could sell off my smaller ones as the size is more effective for me.

All I need to do when honing a smiling blade or a warped blade on a larger stone is adjust my stroke and it works out fine. I haven't had any problems with wider stones. I always hone on my Norton 4/8K following the Naniwa 1K and I don't see any problems with the blades before finishing on my narrow YG Escher.

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Originally Posted by zib

Can you not do this with a wider hone too? Is cost a factor? If the 40mm hone is half the price, I fully understand. My contention is that, Anything done on a narrow hone, can be done on a wider hone. Given the choice, Money not being a factor, I'd take the wider hone everytime.

What do you think?

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I agree. Coast is the factor that is all.

I greatly prefer a wider hone (2.5" +) as I find it is much easier to assure even pressure across the full length of the blade. I only hone my own blades, most of which are 7/8 and above and slightly heavy. I know that many skilled honers can accomplish this on a 1" wide hone but I find it is simply less effort on a wider hone. I personally feel that if narrow hones were more desirable to the masses, synthetics would be commonly available in 1-2" widths.

I generally like wide hones but for smiling blades I prefer narrow.

You learn to use the hone that is in front of you, Period end of story...

Doing this professionally for a few years now, trust me when I say this "If something is easier, more cost effective or more consistent I and every other Honemeister would be using it exclusively"

I even went so far as to cut down a set of Norton's because I believed some BS hype that it was easier to hone heavy smiling wedges on thinner hones, it isn't... :mad:

Really it doesn't matter the size of the stone, all that really matter is the evenness of the honing stroke...

Go ahead don't take my word for it spend your hard earned cash on all the different sizes and go find out :)

BTW go ahead and try the Magic Marker test on a wide hone compared to a thin hone on any razor you want, what you are going to find is what some of us keep saying over and over "The magic is in the hands not the stone"

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You learn to use the hone that is in front of you, Period end of story...

Doing this professionally for a few years now, trust me when I say this "If something is easier, more cost effective or more consistent I and every other Honemeister would be using it exclusively"

I even went so far as to cut down a set of Norton's because I believed some BS hype that it was easier to hone heavy smiling wedges on thinner hones, it isn't... :mad:

Really it doesn't matter the size of the stone, all that really matter is the evenness of the honing stroke...

Go ahead don't take my word for it spend your hard earned cash on all the different sizes and go find out :)

BTW go ahead and try the Magic Marker test on a wide hone compared to a thin hone on any razor you want, what you are going to find is what some of us keep saying over and over "The magic is in the hands not the stone"

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You mean when I got my new Belgian Coticule, hand cut from the heart of the mine, as big as my dining room table I wasted my money? You know how much it cost to ship the thing? Why it's so heavy it almost sunk the ship.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You mean when I got my new Belgian Coticule, hand cut from the heart of the mine, as big as my dining room table I wasted my money? You know how much it cost to ship the thing? Why it's so heavy it almost sunk the ship.

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You didn't waste your money, now you have bragging rights on the badest coticule known to man. :rock: You can get a car to pass the HHT now.

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Originally Posted by Glenn24

You didn't waste your money, now you have bragging rights on the badest coticule known to man. :rock: You can get a car to pass the HHT now.

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...but will it shave?

Taking Applicants Now:
!!SHAVE WITH A CAR!!
Honed by our very own thebigspendur on the Colossal Coticule!

$19.95 Application fee, no refunds.

I think the only advantage to a narrow hone is when you have a warped blade, it is a little easier to manuever.

Cost can be a factor, and if you like to hand hold that can be another one. Beyond that, here are my thoughts -

With a narrow hone, even if you don't try to, you are forced to follow any curves or irregularities the razor has, because you are always focused on keeping the razor flat on a narrow surface. Having a narrow surface also makes any curves or irregularities seem smaller, because, as with any arc, the smaller the arc length the straighter the arc appears.

Combined, these things mean that if you razor smiles or is warped, honing it on a narrow hone will a) make the warp or smile seem less significant and b) make you adjust your stroke to compensate.

However, those same compensations can be made on a wider hone using the exact same alterations to a honing stroke. You just won't necessarily make those compensations on your own/without thinking about it, because you aren't forced to by the stone. You have to know what the compensations are and then consciously apply them (unless you are to the point where the compensations are made automatically out of habit, and then the width doesn't matter).

In short, if you hand a guy who has never honed before a smiling or warped razor, I would bet he would be more likely to be successful in honing it on a narrow hone, but once you know what you are doing, the hone width does not matter at all.

What is interesting about this, IMO, is that in a way, saying "It is easier to hone a smiling or warped razor on a narrow hone" is not an incorrect statement, but it's not the whole truth.

At least, that's my opinion, having done this professionally for a couple years now.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

...what Holli4 wrote above...

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I definitely agree with that. When I was first starting the only stone that worked reliably for me was a narrow coticule. Some of you may remember some of the threads and chat discussions about it. It was what led to my short-lived obsession with coticules.

I do not find narrow stones more useful. Full size hone can produce the same result as a narrow hone when used correctly.
I also find narrow stones somewhat inconvenient to hold when hand honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soilarch

...but will it shave?

Taking Applicants Now:
!!SHAVE WITH A CAR!!
Honed by our very own thebigspendur on the Colossal Coticule!

$19.95 Application fee, no refunds.

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:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

The car would be a chevy "Chavette"

Hmm, Colossal Coticule eh? That gives me an idea.

Sounds like a Japanese Monster Movie. Godzilla vs The Colossal Coticule.

Bigger. You've seen some of my naturals. Jimmy, Sham, Randy T and Lynn hoard all the big Eschers and Coti's. Count your blessings if these rock hounds put one of their little one's up for sale.

I do like to hold my final finishers, which are "normally" much narrower. It kind of indicates the value of such stones when they made them that small. I do so like the sound and feel of the steel on those little beauties.
MIke

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Originally Posted by MODINE

I do so like the sound and feel of the steel on those little beauties.
MIke

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Ahhhhhh, Spoken like a true Addict.....