Sharpness For Shaving

I have been slowly practicing my honing on several razors that include one new that was professionally honed and used for about 4 months and then a couple vintage from ebay. I have been going from bevel setting to finishing with a simple Norton 1/4/8K progression and vintage Thuri.

I am trying to assess how well I am doing with regards to sharpness for shaving. I know I have much to improve on getting a really nice smooth edge for comfort. However, I am focusing right now on making sure that I am setting the bevel properly and getting the razor sharp enough for shaving.

In testing for sharpness,
- I always pass the TNT
- 60-70% of the time I can cut hairs off my arm (they're not scared off like some of you, though)
- I am still getting the feel for the TPT, but do sense the "biting" or digging needed for sharpness.

In the end, I shave and find that I am cutting the hair off my face. Sometimes there is a little more pulling or ATG comes off somewhat rough.

My questions are as follows:
1. If I am shaving hair off my face, am I doing a good job setting the bevel? 2. Are there noticeably different levels of sharpness that come off the bevel setting (1K and/or 4K) or does that come into play later in my honing progression?
3. If I don't pop hairs on my arm but still cut hairs on my face, does it mean that I am not setting the bevel as well as I should.
4. If there is just a little bit of pulling on the whiskers and/or against the grain is cutting a bit rough, is this corrected in bevel setting or in subsequent honing?

While I enjoy my honemeister razor shaves, I do like the craft and challenge of getting my own close shaves!

Thanks,

Jeff

Sounds like to me from what you are saying, you need a touch more work in 4k/8k area... It seems that you have the bevel set...
Honestly the pyramid was designed for this stage of the game, it is very very effective at building smoothness and sharpness and teaching you what that feels like...
It really does allow you to sneak up on the shaving edge...

After you get the 4/8 so that it is shaving smooth, then and only then add the Thuringen back into the equation...
Pigtail strokes with a light slurry diluting to clear water after about 20 laps bring out a buttery smooth edge on mine you have to work that into a system with yours...

Regarding the sharpness tests and knowing where you're at:
The problem is that sharpness tests are very subjective, and individual "calibration" is needed.

For me the bevel is set when it will cut arm hair. It won't cut arm hair above the skin, and it won't "pop" arm hair. It just needs to cut it. Then it's time for me to move on.
Other people have different arm hair, and thus the test is different.

If you are cutting hair off your face, then the bevel is set. It's odd that you can't cut hair on your arm. (or is it cutting arm hair, just not "popping" it?)
(note: I'm not a big fan of the word "pop" here, as it means different things to different people, so is not terribly useful)

Once the bevel is set, the problems you're having are *typically* above the 1k level. Follow Glen's advice and you'll be getting smooth shaves in no time.



It is also possible that you've created a micro-bevel with a bad stroke or two. The magic marker test might allow you to see the micro-bevel if it's large enough. In that case, you could start back at your 1k with a few very light strokes to remove it and then work back up.

Thanks for the info. I'll work in the middle grits. It helps to know that I am making progress beyond bevel setting.

What are "pigtails"?

I would also like to know what is meant by "pigtail strokes". I came across this thread by doing a search for it.

I believe that refers to doing a circle stroke with the razor on the side of the hone then transitioning it into a stroke across the stone - so you are basically doing a circle and x-stroke on each side, alternating. It may also refer to doing a long stroke across the stone that has a circle "swirl" added in partway through the stroke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by straightshot

I would also like to know what is meant by "pigtail strokes". I came across this thread by doing a search for it.

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I am also unclear about the 'Pigtail Stroke'...can anyone give a detailed explanation???

Thanks

WP34

The pigtail is that little curly q stroke at the end of an X stroke. To me it distributes the slurry back on the stone for the next stroke. Take a look at one of Glen's videos. I don't use is as for me, typically a decent X stroke will keep the slurry distributed across the stone and maintain the distribution as you change directions. Remember though that anything you pick up that works for you on a repeated basis is worth keeping in your arsenal, regardless of what any one else says or does.

The real keys here are not so much the tests through out the entire process of honing. Bevel setting is critical and using virtually no pressure as you finish out from at least the 8K, your finishing stone and paste or spray if you use it are the real keys for success. Typically if you're shave test is not where you want it to be, these are the culprits.

Have fun,

Lynn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lynn

The pigtail is that little curly q stroke at the end of an X stroke. To me it distributes the slurry back on the stone for the next stroke. Take a look at one of Glen's videos. I don't use is as for me, typically a decent X stroke will keep the slurry distributed across the stone and maintain the distribution as you change directions. Remember though that anything you pick up that works for you on a repeated basis is worth keeping in your arsenal, regardless of what any one else says or does.

The real keys here are not so much the tests through out the entire process of honing. Bevel setting is critical and using virtually no pressure as you finish out from at least the 8K, your finishing stone and paste or spray if you use it are the real keys for success. Typically if you're shave test is not where you want it to be, these are the culprits.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Thanks so much Lynn! Your post clears up a lot questions for me. I've now had 4 shaves with 2 different Ebay's that I have reset the bevels on, from 400K to 12k using your pyramid technique on the finishing stones 8-12K. I've practiced my stropping and now feel that I am 'Beginner Decent' at that.

But... ( and I really don't know what a 'Good Shave' should feel like yet!)... when I've shaved it feels that (although I get all the whiskers -excepting the tight spots!) the razor tends to pull and scrape a bit. It's kinda hard to explain...but it's definitely not 'Butter Smooth' as I've heard described hereabouts.

Both razors pass the TPT ( I think? Because that is a tough 'feel' to develop)...yet I am not 'really satisfied' with the shaves. It feels like I'm definitely exfoliating as much or more than just shaving! :D

At this point I want to 'blame it on my shaving technique' and I keep telling myself that it will get smoother with practice...I hope it does.

I've ordered a Balsa strop with CrO2 and a Felt strop with Diamond slurry which I should have in a few days...maybe this is the missing piece??? We'll see...

Thanks again for the help ( and all of your fine mentoring posts in the Wiki...I'd really be lost without those!).

WP34

Don't be afraid to give the razor 3-5 more light strokes on the 12K as well and then strop and see if any improvement.

Have fun,

Lynn

Great advice and it sounds like you're doing well. Remember that a razor does not pass a sharpness test, it reacts. Think carefully about the reaction, then improvement can be categorized through better reactions.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll try to keep that in mind as I progress...

WP34

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbern

Thanks for the info. I'll work in the middle grits. It helps to know that I am making progress beyond bevel setting.

What are "pigtails"?

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I don't remember who first posted, but this vid is where I first saw the pigtale stroke, and Glen has linked it several times.
YouTube - Razor Sharpening

It's his stropping vid that still breaks my head. Massive slack, clearly and deliberately raises spine from strop. The masterful have arrows in their quiver that remain in the future for most of us. The Mastro Livi honing/stropping vid gives similar reactions. I'll let someone else argue with what works.

Do not forget that a sharp razor is only a part of a good shave.
Preshave preparation is very important to.
If you have a stiff beard as me, then hot towel will do the magic.