Challenging honing session

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03-17-2011, 06:26 PM
Birnando

Challenging honing session

Gents.
While honing up a few blades today, I suddenly found myself struggling to put a decent bevel on one of the three blades I was working on. All basically the same size and grind.
2 of them was pretty much your average progression, using circles and x-strokes up thru the progression. 1-5-10K Chosera, then finished it on a Y/G Escher. All well, smooth and super sharp blades.

Now, the third blade was a different beast altogether.
I did the same as with the other blades, but no go.
The blade absolutely refused to get to a sharp level, not even cut arm-hair at skin level.
I experimented a lot with it and finally I managed to get a good even bevel on it.
The thing that seemed to work was to push the blade down the 1K stone with a 45-50 degree angle, heel leading, which is about double the angle I would normally use.
Now, the blade is all good now, but does any of you with more experience in this than I, know what the reason to all this could be?
I visually inspected the blade, and couldn't see any warping or other defects on it. (this is what I still suspect, but I wasn't able to pinpoint it)
It doesn't have too much of a smile either.
This is a pretty much straight forward Solingen blade (Globusmen Gold) in 6/8".
Any ideas or thoughts around this would be much appreciated:)
03-17-2011, 06:30 PM
JimmyHAD

Perhaps something to do with the steel ....alloy, heat treat/hardness ? I've had some that honed up so easily I thought I had become a honemeister and than run into others that had me ...... :banghead: Fortunately most of them come around with less work.
03-17-2011, 06:44 PM
gssixgun

I have often recommended this ...

When you hit a brick wall quit smacking yer head into it,,, at least change something up...

Change the stone up or down one step for 20 stokes
Switch to a natural
Switch to a synthetic
Try slurry
Try no slurry
Try a different stroke
Try pressure
Try stropping
But try something different, right after you stop, and walk away for a coffee or a drink :D
03-17-2011, 06:48 PM
Birnando

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Perhaps something to do with the steel ....alloy, heat treat/hardness ? I've had some that honed up so easily I thought I had become a honemeister and than run into others that had me ...... :banghead: Fortunately most of them come around with less work.

Thanks Jimmy!
Yeah, that is definitely a possibility.
Perhaps it just needed a few more laps on the 1K due to harder steel, and I happened to be doing my angles thing when it finally reached the desired level of sharpness.
Funny stuff, the razor got sharp, and I learned something today, I'm just not sure what:)
03-17-2011, 06:52 PM
JimmyHAD

What Glen said is good advice. Sometimes I've put the darn thing in the cabinet and come back another day. :)
03-17-2011, 06:58 PM
Birnando

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have often recommended this ...

When you hit a brick wall quit smacking yer head into it,,, at least change something up...

Change the stone up or down one step for 20 stokes
Switch to a natural
Switch to a synthetic
Try slurry
Try no slurry
Try a different stroke
Try pressure
Try stropping
But try something different, right after you stop, and walk away for a coffee or a drink :D

Thanks. Good advice:)

It did receive quite the variety of hones this afternoon, but I guess I probably should have given it a rest, and then started fresh after a while.
Then I might have even understood how I reached my good bevel eventually.
03-17-2011, 07:10 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birnando

Thanks. Good advice:)

It did receive quite the variety of hones this afternoon, but I guess I probably should have given it a rest, and then started fresh after a while.
Then I might have even understood how I reached my good bevel eventually.

Hehehe I agree with Jimmy, sometimes I stop, put it in the drawer and come back to it the next day, and it all pops sharp... I attribute that to the razor resting :roflmao:roflmao:roflmao
03-18-2011, 01:25 PM
Bruce

I have a damascus razor of vaunted quality which has had 3 time-outs in the drawer. It's still winning, :gaah: but I seem to be gaining on it.

If it weren't for these occasional frustrations life would be too easy. Hmmm? :shrug:
03-18-2011, 01:34 PM
Birnando

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce

I have a damascus razor of vaunted quality which has had 3 time-outs in the drawer. It's still winning, :gaah: but I seem to be gaining on it.

If it weren't for these occasional frustrations life would be too easy. Hmmm? :shrug:

I hear you!
It is fun with these challenges. I suppose that is what makes honing such a great past time, you never know excactly what each new blade will be like on the hones.
I finally nailed my challenging blade, in fact I Actually used it for todays SOTD. Smooth shave:)

Good luck with the Damascus blade:gl:
03-18-2011, 01:42 PM
hi_bud_gl

The particular blade you mention is Very quality blade i should say high quality.
this doesn't meant what Jimmy mention is not possible.
there is very little chance problem with heat treatment but if it is the case just give up.
lastly In some cases if you do have problem with h/t 1 layer of tape may help. just try and see.
gl.
03-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Birnando

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

The particular blade you mention is Very quality blade i should say high quality.
this doesn't meant what Jimmy mention is not possible.
there is very little chance problem with heat treatment but if it is the case just give up.
lastly In some cases if you do have problem with h/t 1 layer of tape may help. just try and see.
gl.

Thanks, Sham!
I'll be sure to watch this blade going forward, to see if there is any abnormal
behaviour with it.
If it holds the edge I've finally been able to put on it, then I guess it is ok, but if it doesn't hold up during a few shaves, I guess it could be a heat treatment issue.
I sure hope not, I like the looks on this thing, and hopes it is ok:)
03-18-2011, 02:06 PM
JimmyHAD

Birnando, I don't mean heat treatment in the sense that it is faulty and the blade is no good. I mean that some blades may be harder steel, more abrasion resistant, than others. For example, IME, the dubl duck line of razors are easily brought to a superb shaving edge. The dubl duck Wonderedge is not easy at all. I only have one but it took a lot of work to dial in and I attribute that to the cyro hardening they used on that one model. I may be mistaken but I believe that treatment would make the steel more abrasion resistent and IMHO that is what makes some razors more difficult to hone.
03-18-2011, 02:16 PM
Birnando

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Birnando, I don't mean heat treatment in the sense that it is faulty and the blade is no good. I mean that some blades may be harder steel, more abrasion resistant, than others. For example, IME, the dubl duck line of razors are easily brought to a superb shaving edge. The dubl duck Wonderedge is not easy at all. I only have one but it took a lot of work to dial in and I attribute that to the cyro hardening they used on that one model. I may be mistaken but I believe that treatment would make the steel more abrasion resistent and IMHO that is what makes some razors more difficult to hone.

Thanks for the clarification Jimmy!

I actually recognize this now that you mention it. I had the hardest time with my Wonderedge six months ago. I got it to shave, but never to its full potential I believe.
A pity I gave it away:banghead:

Knowing what I know now, and with a little bit more experience I would have loved to give that one another go.
03-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Lynn

Some blades are just "Stubborn". You run into them periodically and it can be a brand or type of blade that you have honed a bunch of before with great success. No real explantion. Just happens. I agree with Jimmy and Glen in that, I will try to hone that blade 1 or 2 more times on a different stone or use a different method and if it doesn't work, I just put it away for next time.

Good thing is that they are all not stubborn.........:beer2:

Have fun,

Lynn
03-18-2011, 03:32 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

Good thing is that they are all not stubborn.........:beer2:

Have fun,

Lynn

Ummmm if they were we would call them "Wives"

Ducks and leaves :)
03-18-2011, 03:45 PM
Stubear

I see a new expression arising...! :D

"So I was honing this razor the other day and it was a total wife..."

:rofl2:
06-12-2018, 10:54 PM
jkatzman

My barber gave me a Dubl Duck wonderedge that was his fathers. It had rust and he used a barbers hone that looked like a brick. He asked me to hone it and I used my Naniwa 3k, coticule, 12k Naniwa, a paddle strop with .5 & .25 paste, then Tony Miller linen strop and last his strop. I am not in Glen or Lynn's class for honing but I was surprised how good I got the edge. Couldn't resist a shave and it was smooth as could be. Takes a really nice edge.
06-13-2018, 03:32 AM
Phrank

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkatzman

My barber gave me a Dubl Duck wonderedge that was his fathers. It had rust and he used a barbers hone that looked like a brick. He asked me to hone it and I used my Naniwa 3k, coticule, 12k Naniwa, a paddle strop with .5 & .25 paste, then Tony Miller linen strop and last his strop. I am not in Glen or Lynn's class for honing but I was surprised how good I got the edge. Couldn't resist a shave and it was smooth as could be. Takes a really nice edge.

....Rise from 2011 Thread.....:rofl2:

Attachment 290712