Hair Popping Honing Help.

For reasons I won't get into, I'm going against all the sage advice that I acknowledge is well intentioned, and more than likely correct, and I'm trying to figure out some honing with almost no shaving experience under my belt.

I've watched many videos, several hours worth of videos on honing. But I'm left with two quesitons I hope you'll help me with.

1: None of the videos I've run across have actually been able to show what is being done when a guy runs a blade over his forearm. You can hear pricks/pops of hair, but I can't tell where the blade is at in relation to the skin, if the hair is coarse or fine, if he's slicing in the direction of hair growth or not, and so on. For you experienced guys out there, can you explain what you're doing. And then can you tell me how/why this is any different than a HHT which has less than stellar reputation for determining shave test readiness?

2: I'm working on a recent antique store find, Sterling 6/8 hollow ground razor that I've gotten to grab/pop hairs in one spot about an inch from the toe. This blade does not have a smile (maybe a smirk the last 1/4 inch to the heel) as attested by a straight edge. But the rest of the blade does not freely grab hair (it will cut wetted hair with a shaving like stroke, but I don't think that's what the guys on the honing vids are doing).

Thanks in advance for your patience and support.

In my Vids and in real life I pop the hair at skin level at the bevel set WTG in about 5 spots along the edge, I do not shave the hair, I simply touch the edge to it... All I need to know is that the bevel is set, how sharp it is doesn't matter to me at that level...

Now in the Vids at the end I am showing the hair pop above skin level but I do not do that in real life :) it is a useless test to me...

Honestly the more you hone the more that the TPT becomes the goto test for most people,,, never all :)

I usually shave a couple of hairs off every time I do the arm hair test. After honing damaged edges of new acquisitions there's usually not much of the original fur of my left arm left. The TNT I use in a much earlier stage, I never use the TPT.

If only one spot will cut hairs you still have a lot of work to do. At least you have shown that you know what to do, having fixed the one spot near the toe! I am afraid you'll nead to go back to the coarser hones and set the bevel along the entire edge.

Jim I am going through the same thing right now. I will probably get a shave ready razor here on the classifieds in a few weeks when I have the money, but for now it's just "guess and check." I have found in my experimenting that people's hair and maybe even the different steels just vary too much for those tests to have any relevance between people (although if it works for one person with their particular hair, I can see how it would be useful). For instance if I take my GF's hair off her brush, it's pretty easy to pass a HHT, but with my own it is tougher. The thumb pad test has been fairly helpful for me, but the thing that has helped the most is just when I think I am done honing, and the edge seems finished, take it into the bathroom and just do a few strokes on my face with just a little water/soap splashed on. If it seems to laser through the hairs fairly well, I decide to shave with it and see how it performs in a full shave. If it drags or seems uneven it goes back to the hones.

The hardest part about doing it this way, which is probably why all the experienced folks say not to do it, is that say you have what is an objectively 'shave ready' edge but you really have no clear idea so you shave with it to see. You get a pretty good but not great shave out of it, but then you wonder, "could I get better if I spent some more time on the hone?" And then you (well, "I") go back to the hone, and just waste time getting back to where I just was.

Well, that's more or less where I'm at. I picked up a J. Wosty wedge and this Sterling at antique shops. The Wosty has been improved but won't shave. It needs some grinding work that I don't have the right stones for, nor the money to acquire said stones. Thanks to Glen for his honing vids that enabled me to figure out what the blade needed, make some progress, and end frustration at not being able to get further.

The Sterling, being hollow ground doesn't have the same problem the Wosty has, so I spent last night honing on it. I'll try again this evening and see if I get any further. Perhaps the spot that IS grabbing hair is ever so slightly further extended from the spine than the rest of the blade? Maybe it's a non-visible smile.

Glen, thanks for your response. The razor seems to grab on the TNT, though I'll look over it more carefully tonight and see if it grabs better in the same spot that it catches hair. I've been going ATG on dry hair about 1/16th above the skin trying to get hairs to pop. After looking over the TNT, I'll put some more laps on her and try the TPT. From the Wiki and the vids I've watched, I THINK I know what to look for there...just didn't think of TPT last night.

P.S.--Got some Gorilla Glue and some test wood to try it on. If the weather's half decent this weekend I'll try things out and post my experience.


Edit: Just had this thought, sitting here with my mind on things other than the work I SHOULD be doing right about now...I picked up a Fatboy razor this week and grabbed some DE blades to try it out (been shaving with it since). Does anybody know how the DE blades compare to the truly shave ready straights? I've got Wilkinson blades (they were handy). Maybe I could try the TPT and TNT with them to help get an idea of when I'm in the ballpark? What do you think?

That sounds like maybe the blade is warped a little bit? On the Wade & Butcher I have, the toe was raised from the rest of the blade a little on one side, and it took a lot of patience to get it even, and take out the gentle frown on the other side. It is now flat all the way across the bevel, but the warping is apparent by the fact that the length of the bevel is uneven, in more or less opposite ways from one side of the edge to the other. If that makes any sense. I was able to get through it on a 1k stone with a lot of patience, but if I had to do it again I would not want do it without a coarser stone. On the bright side, working through that really gets the muscle memory for honing built up. Does yours push/undercut water evenly across the bevel, on both sides? That for me is the biggest visual indicator of how even the bevel is when I am setting it.

I move the razor slowly over the arm, perpendicular to the hairs, and parallel to the arm (although they go all different wild directions).

I am registering how effectively the edge is mowing down hairs, at about a distance of one inch off the arm.

Sometimes I might get the sense that I'm mowing down half the hairs, sometimes 3/4 of the hairs. I'm essentially honing, and then looking for an improvement over the last "run". I'm looking for an increase in the percentage.

Honestly, if I can mow down 3/4s of all the hair the razor comes in contact with, instantly, I'm usually pretty happy.

I do often shoot for 100% mow down, lopping off each hair instantly. For me, personally, I see no reason in wasting my time with trying to shave with a honing job of any less than 3/4 quality. I shoot for 100%, but sometimes loose patience.

For me the HHT (and arm hair test) is just the beginning of acceptable shaving. But, that's my hair.

Mine too. For me, hairs can pop before the edge is truly shave-ready--usually there's a bit of resistance when the hair catches before it pops. THe way I can tell for sure is when I feel nothing--they just pop. This is still not super-reliable for me; it's mainly a supplement to the TPT or shave test. It also depends on the hone it comes off of--a really smooth edge will not pop until it's really sharp, for example because it doesn't have big striations that will catch the hair. As always, YMMV.

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Originally Posted by TheZ

That sounds like maybe the blade is warped a little bit...

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It does seem to undercut water evenly (I say seem because what I see happen to the water on my hone is not quite what I see on the vids, but on the vids they're also using different stones than I am). I will say that using a felt tipped marker to reveal where the stone and blade are contacting reveals an even contact patch right along the very edge of the blade. This leads me to believe that there's no warping.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I move the razor slowly over the arm, perpendicular to the hairs, and parallel to the arm (although they go all different wild directions).

I am registering how effectively the edge is mowing down hairs, at about a distance of one inch off the arm.

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Unlike the hair on my head and face, the hair on my arms is pretty fine...thick, but fine and it doesn't stand even half an inch off my forearm! That answers my question about the forearm test though.

After thinking on this a little more, I'm guessing that the spot 1" from the toe of the razor was simply not as blunted as the rest of the razor. This thing was floating around in a shoe box with safety razors, antique curling irons, and all kinds of other random junk, with no scales to even attempt to protect it. Considering those conditions, it looks FANTASTIC, but it also wouldn't be surprising that it'd have a rather odd blunting pattern.

I've got a game plan in mind for tonight and will post my results.

I can only offer one piece of advice:

1. Make sure every stone you're using is lapped flatter than a piece of glass.

I'm still trying to get my bevel sharp enough to pop hair so I can move on to the next hone!!

The hone that you should be using to set the bevel should be 1,000 grit.

You should put no pressure on the blade on the stone, just the weight of the razor–always.

If your stone isn't perfectly flat, you are always going to have problems.

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible.

Also, go buy a lighted microscope (probably for a jeweler) for $5 on ebay. I bought one, its awesome–this tiny magnifying glass 45x power, with a led light attached to it. Great for seeing what's going on with your edge.

So, here's the scoop tonight.

I took the blade back down to my 4k equivalent. Ran several passes...lost count, went back to my +/- 10k and ran several passes while watching the tube...sort of. No hair popping but serious grab on the TPT. So I decided to go to the strop...nicked it ever so slightly with the heel...which is what I was afraid wouldn't get sharp.

Gave her a test shave...meh...not so hot. It cut stubble for sure, but not smoothly. I had to follow up with a DE. That felt smooth, but my skin does not feel happy right now and I'm pretty confident it's not because of the DE.

BUT, this was only shave number TWO all time with a straight, so I'm open to believing that my blade's not the problem, it's my lack of technique. I may play around with it more, but right now I'm feeling like I just can't get a blade where it needs to be with the tools I have...and at this point, with the other things that have gone on with my venture into straight shaving, and having just moved to a new state, and having a baby due in the next few weeks...there's no buying a Norton 4/8 (which would fill my gap).

We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for the input fellas. I'll keep my eye out for that lighted microscope...that sounds like a fun toy to have around for a number of reasons.

Peace,

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Originally Posted by BigJim

So, here's the scoop tonight.

I took the blade back down to my 4k equivalent. Ran several passes...lost count, went back to my +/- 10k and ran several passes while watching the tube...sort of. No hair popping but serious grab on the TPT. So I decided to go to the strop...nicked it ever so slightly with the heel...which is what I was afraid wouldn't get sharp.

Gave her a test shave...meh...not so hot. It cut stubble for sure, but not smoothly. I had to follow up with a DE. That felt smooth, but my skin does not feel happy right now and I'm pretty confident it's not because of the DE.

BUT, this was only shave number TWO all time with a straight, so I'm open to believing that my blade's not the problem, it's my lack of technique. I may play around with it more, but right now I'm feeling like I just can't get a blade where it needs to be with the tools I have...and at this point, with the other things that have gone on with my venture into straight shaving, and having just moved to a new state, and having a baby due in the next few weeks...there's no buying a Norton 4/8 (which would fill my gap).

We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for the input fellas. I'll keep my eye out for that lighted microscope...that sounds like a fun toy to have around for a number of reasons.

Peace,

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sorry to say what you are doing is wrong. why in the world you are moving from 4k to 10K?
if the reason you don't have lower grit stone then 10 k then you will need to spend a lot time to bring the edge from 4k to 10 k level.
is your 4k is norton ?
if yes?
then stay on Norton until you will pop up the hairs on skin level.
Now if you are unable to get that level then problem with your strokes.
you are using too much pressure, or even set the bevel correctly on 1k level.
hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by daflorc

The hone that you should be using to set the bevel should be 1,000 grit. 2-5K can work too but depends on the damage

You should put no pressure on the blade on the stone, just the weight of the razor–always. When finishing yes, but a 'little' pressure is ok at bevel set.

If your stone isn't perfectly flat, you are always going to have problems.
Not necessarily as some softer stones will lose "perfect" flatness after just a few sets of strokes but it is worth checking every few razors

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible. The stone doesn't really determine how good your stroke is. That just comes with practice.

Also, go buy a lighted microscope (probably for a jeweler) for $5 on ebay. I bought one, its awesome–this tiny magnifying glass 45x power, with a led light attached to it. Great for seeing what's going on with your edge.

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As a visual learner,I really agree on buying some kind of magnification, tho I bet there's a bunch of guys out there that hone just on feel. ;)

I am positive anybody who really knows what they're doing won't need a microscope. Which is why I need a microscope :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJim

....snip....
2: I'm working on a recent antique store find, Sterling 6/8 hollow ground razor that I've gotten to grab/pop hairs in one spot about an inch from the toe. This blade does not have a smile (maybe a smirk the last 1/4 inch to the heel) as attested by a straight edge. But the rest of the blade does not freely grab hair (it will cut wetted hair with a shaving like stroke, but I don't think that's what the guys on the honing vids are doing).

Thanks in advance for your patience and support.

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The length of the edge should be all the same.
If you have 1" that grabs and pops hair then
ask what is different.

Use the marker trick to see if there is a bevel issue.
I like a red marker I can see the thin red line better than
a thin black line.

Use a pin to feel for a burr, a burr can catch hair but will not shave well.

Use a light stroke.

Tests against hair are an individual thing.
They work for some folk and not for others.

You can try a sharp DE blade to compare.
If a good DE does not pass then it is likely the hair.
Oil on the razor messes it up. And sure
try the HHT on a dull DE before you put it in the dead
razor save.

I sometimes snag a dark hair from my gals
hair brush. A sharp edge will often grab and cut
a hair 1/4" away from where I hold it. I can
test the edge every half inch if I want and
look for dull places. Dull places are obviously
dull when you find them. Sharp is more difficult
because a hair may catch and cut when held in in one
direction but not in the other. But once I find
a sharp spot I can explore the edge for differences.

Lately I just shave test. If it is dull I put it down
and grab a known sharp razor to finish the shave.
Later I revisit the hones with the dull blade. If you
only have one straight switch to a tossable and
do not punish your face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daflorc

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible.

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You must remember though that many vintage razors were sharpened on narrower hones by their previous owners so when you take them to a 3" hone you'll find the cutting edge won't be making contact with the hone along its entire length. On many razors you'll have to remove a lot of metal to adapt the edge to 3" honing. Most vintage hones are less than 3", many of us like to use them, I do as well.

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Originally Posted by daflorc

I am positive anybody who really knows what they're doing won't need a microscope. Which is why I need a microscope :)

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HA HA HA! Guess that means I need one too!

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

sorry to say what you are doing is wrong. why in the world you are moving from 4k to 10K?

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I have a 220, a 500, a 3K equivalent, a 4K equivalent, and a Barber Hone that's the +/- 10K and the reason for the +/-. Glen's a beast of a honer, but he can set a bevel at 4K and I don't trust the 500 to do it. Maybe the 3k would be a better choice, but this is like spitting in a tornado.

BTW, the 220/500 is lapped perfectly flat...so is the Barber Hone. The 3K/4K is a wet/dry paper setup mounted on glass and rolled on, but I'm less confident about it, and might try re-doing it with a press instead of a roller.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Now if you are unable to get that level then problem with your strokes.
... or even set the bevel correctly on 1k level.
hope this helps.

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Heheheh...if you only knew all of the variables at hand. I don't have enough time to get into all the outside factors that have led to this situation, but suffice it to say, I agree with you. And it does help. And I appreciate the input. I may just have to wait out straight shaving until I can get through the moving/baby/etc. valley and acquire the tools I need to do it right.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

The length of the edge should be all the same.
If you have 1" that grabs and pops hair then
ask what is different.

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I agree. I don't have magnification to see what it might reveal. But, there's no indication of a smile, so what I believe is different is that the one sharp spot is the half an inch of the razor that didn't get beat up quite as much as it sat in a shoe box under the table in the antique store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use the marker trick to see if there is a bevel issue.
I like a red marker I can see the thin red line better than
a thin black line.

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Try using a blue marker. The wavelength of blue light (which is what is reflected off of the blue marker) is registered more readily by the human eye. Red is up there too though. Black would be just about impossible to see I think. BTW, I did this on the Wosty and discovered a serious bevel issue there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use a pin to feel for a burr, a burr can catch hair but will not shave well.

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The blade did have a burr on one side when I got it. I took that off in a few circles. I'm certain there's no burr/wire edge now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use a light stroke.Tests against hair are an individual thing.They work for some folk and not for others.

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Definitely using a light stroke...and no longer seeking to learn much if anything from the HHT...it simply doesn't seem to work for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

You can try a sharp DE blade to compare.
If a good DE does not pass then it is likely the hair.
Oil on the razor messes it up. And sure
try the HHT on a dull DE before you put it in the dead
razor save.

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By the time I got home to wife and kids and dinner and bedtime and so on, I forgot about testing the DE blade on the HHT and TPT. I'll do that tonight for the education it might bring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

If you only have one straight switch to a tossable and do not punish your face.

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Dropped the Sterling and shaved with the Fatboy DE last night. Had a little burn remaining this morning, but it's already disappearing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kees

You must remember though that many vintage razors were sharpened on narrower hones by their previous owners so when you take them to a 3" hone you'll find the cutting edge won't be making contact with the hone along its entire length. On many razors you'll have to remove a lot of metal to adapt the edge to 3" honing. Most vintage hones are less than 3", many of us like to use them, I do as well.

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My 220/500 Norton is 2", my Barber's Hone is 2", my Strop is 2.5", My 3K/4K setup is 3" but I use an X stroke on them anyway. That's how my grandfather taught me to sharpen knives...probably carried over from his father teaching him to sharpen knives/razors. Sure wish he was still around for this kind of stuff.

Thanks again for the input and advice. I'll play around with it some more, as there's just nothing to play around with on the Fatboy, and I'm not the type that can sit watching the news or what have you, and not be doing something with my hands.

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.

If you watch both videos from the NC Gathering of 09, I think they will help you a lot. There is discussion on testing as you go. I am a fan of some pressure on the 1K and 4K at first followed by no pressure on the 4K to finish.

YouTube - Straight Razor Place '09 Convention. Lynn Honing #1

YouTube - Straight Razor Place '09 Convention. Lynn Honing #2

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by daflorc

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.

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Daflorc--I appreciate your input. Let's take it easy on Oni though. I never expected this thread to get this much attention. I'm glad for the input everyone's given, and don't want to risk the thread devolving into any kind of :jedi: match.

For any readers that happen upon this thread, it may be very beneficial for them to realize everything you just pointed out.

And YES, I'm new at sharpening razors: in practice. This would be razor number three that I've worked on. #1 had some pitting in the bevel, I worked on it with just the 500 and the Barber hone and got the best results I've found so far (It was a Genco Gold Seal 5/8 Hollow), but it's no longer available. #2 Was the J. Wosty. It's got grind issues from someone who didn't know what they were doing and tried to sharpen it by lifting the spine (like a pocket knife or something). I can scrape it down with the 220/500 but can't get it over the hump by jumping to a 3/4K but that's all I have available to me right now, so it's been set aside for sunny days. #3 is the Sterling that brought me to start this thread.
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For the guys that haven't honed a razor at all before, go watch the vids (I recommend Glen's) and read as much as you can, it will be worth while.

For me, I'm confident enough in my familiarity in working with steel in other capacities that I believe I am understanding what Oni says about pressure, or what Glen says about torquing the razor, and I'm confident in my ability to determine if I've over-honed a razor (by the use of too much pressure). And, unless I'm wrong (and no one has said that I am so far) I think I've got a good understanding of how to determine if a bevel isn't set, if there's a wire edge/burr, if there's warping, etc. These are all things that need to be learned, thought about, practiced with and I encourage anybody who hasn't done the reading and vid-watching to go do that...please.

Both Oni and Da have valid points. Listen to BOTH of them.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

If you watch both videos from the NC Gathering of 09, I think they will help you a lot. There is discussion on testing as you go. I am a fan of some pressure on the 1K and 4K at first followed by no pressure on the 4K to finish...Have fun, Lynn

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Lynn, those are good videos...but I have to say that I have a hard time hearing everything on those. Next time you get together in the Omaha/Des Moines area (HA!) let me know and I'll mic you up for better audio. Still, got a lot out of them and appreciate you imparting your wisdom to the masses! :bow Great angle for showing the water displacement, and the elbow high tip was a light bulb for me.

Edit: Just watched them again...remembered the forearm segment in the second clip, but somehow I missed the question "are you shaving hairs or popping hairs." That would have answered my first Q in this thread. Not sure how I missed/forgot that.

BigJim, you're right, Oni is a good guy, and I like him because he takes it easy on me when I ask stupid questions (and I do :) Didn't realize I was being hard..

I just hate to see a guy pull his hair out because he's still confused, after all the advice given. I think its hard for a lot of guys to advise newbees because they are so far advanced from that stage. They hear a question/problem, and overanalyze it, when it's really probably something simple.

Nice thing is, everybody's just trying to help!

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Originally Posted by BigJim

I have a 220, a 500, a 3K equivalent, a 4K equivalent, and a Barber Hone that's the +/- 10K and the reason for the +/-. Glen's a beast of a honer, but he can set a bevel at 4K and I don't trust the 500 to do it. Maybe the 3k would be a better choice, but this is like spitting in a tornado.

BTW, the 220/500 is lapped perfectly flat...so is the Barber Hone. The 3K/4K is a wet/dry paper setup mounted on glass and rolled on, but I'm less confident about it, and might try re-doing it with a press instead of a roller

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To make sure I'm understanding correctly... The exact equipment you're using is:
220 stone
500 stone
3K wet/dry sandpaper on glass
4K wet/dry sandpaper on glass
Barber Hone

Correct?

I have never attempted honing anything with that setup, so take this with a grain of salt... But if someone put that in front of me and said "go" I would start with the 3k sandpaper and some pressure to set the bevel, and a few more strokes with no pressure once it's set. (for me a set bevel cuts arm hair. I think people have different definitions of 'pop' so I try not to use it. If "popping" means that the hair falls immediately on contact with the blade, no I don't need that to say my bevel is set. If it cuts hair at skin level I move on ~ check multiple points along the edge)
I would do some no pressure strokes on the 4k sandpaper, it shouldn't take a lot... 3k to 4k isn't much of a jump.
Then the barber hone... Normally you don't do a lot of laps on a barber hone. In this case I think you're going to have to. The edge is not going to be as smooth as it could be, but given a choice between an edge finished at 4k and low laps on a barber hone, vs. high laps on a barber hone, I'll take the high laps. The key here is NO PRESSURE. None at all. High laps and pressure will kill your edge. How many laps you need, I'm not sure. I would just keep going and stop every so often to strop and test to see how it is. With the high laps on the barber hone, you'll probably benefit from lots of laps on the strop as well.

That's what I would try anyway. Good luck!

You give a lot of expert advice for a self proclaimed "newbee".

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Originally Posted by daflorc

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.

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There's a man who can analyze data and synthesize a response. (HNSB)

You hit it nail on the head...and that's what I'm going for. I may just need to be more patient with it.

I should note: the sandpaper is 1500grit, and 2000 grit which I have read equates to a 3K and a 4K equivalent. (I've seen it more than once here on SRP).

ALSO: A GREAT BIG GIANT NOTE THAT IS IN ALL CAPS TO CATCH PEOPLE'S ATTENTION! I would NOT, I repeat NOT suggest this to a new guy. This is me being stubborn, wanting to get into straight shaving, responding to some bad luck that's come my way, and trying to find an option based off of what I have on hand and what I can do with it. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. DO NOT TRY THIS if you have any ounce of sanity.

This has been a public service announcement.

Thank you all once again for joining in my insanity and coaching me through it.

Peace,

There comes a time when one must adjust the dials to clear the static from the channel so that the message comes through clear... ;)

Please continue with you regularly scheduled program ....

FWIW: I just stumbled upon two new hones (no real progress on the Sterling, but my focus was shifted when I got my razors back from honing), and would really appreciate you guys weighing in on them.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...inds-pics.html

Thanks to all of you,

Swaty is an all-time favourite. Carborundum did make barber hones. The one on the pic is not for razors.

TPT?? TNT??

The recommendation that I got from Howard (the perfect edge) is:

Since I already have a Norton 4000/8000 and a yellow Coticlue, he recommended adding a 325 DMT for flattening stones and a 1200 DMT to set the bevel.

that's only $110.88 to finish the set.

TPT=Thumb Pad Test
TNT= Thumb Nail Test

Both are discussed in the wiki as tests to determine bevel set and sharpness through the honing process.

Peace,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tombuesing

TPT?? TNT??

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Thumb Pad Test and Thumb Nail Test.
You can read all about them in the Wiki, and in a huge number of threads:)
Much discussed techniques on here!

Edit:
BigJim types fast:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birnando

Edit:
BigJim types fast:)

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+/- 90wpm I spend most of my weeks writing (typing) articles on faith, theology, discipleship, etc. Apart from being a pastor that has sermons to write and bible studies to prepare each week, I also am a college professor that teaches a lot of online classes with typed out lectures, notes, and conversations. (That's part of the reason why I can hop on SRP at random times throughout the day...sometimes my mind just needs a break)

Peace,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJim

+/- 90wpm I spend most of my weeks writing (typing) articles on faith, theology, discipleship, etc. Apart from being a pastor that has sermons to write and bible studies to prepare each week, I also am a college professor that teaches a lot of online classes with typed out lectures, notes, and conversations. (That's part of the reason why I can hop on SRP at random times throughout the day...sometimes my mind just needs a break)

Peace,

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Sometimes my mind just breaks...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce

Sometimes my mind just breaks...

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Heheheh. I hear that.

i have a king 1k, a norton combo, the phig, and a coticule i just picked up with a slurry stone on the way. yesterday i finally put what i would call a good edge on a Worcester razor co. unit using just the 1k and the norton, a loupe and an srd strop. i got a really nice shave. i don't bother with any of the tests, except for testing off the 1k. i've tried to hone lots of different ebay specials, and i've been really lucky in what i've gotten there, and some are easier to hone than others. i have a wostenholm that's an sob to get an edge on, and a lot of the others like the bengall, the hamburg ring, the reynolds, the w&b bow, i'm holding off till i get better. buy yesterday's effort was a real breakthrough.