Failing the Shave Test

So without going into long drawn out detail, I've been shaving with my Genco for over two weeks and it was fading. As I tried to figure out stropping in practice as opposed to theory, I shifted over to my C&S which had never been shaved with before. It was my worst shave. Switched to my Leader...a little better, but both were worse than the Genco I'd set aside for pulling too much.

After some more stropping work, my Genco's popping arm hair (no really, I actually know what that's like now, and the shave tonight was bliss!).

I spent a lot of time on both the C&S and the Leader going through the same stropping that brought the Genco back to heaven. The Leader pops arm hair about 1/4 inch off the surface, but only at heel and toe. In the middle it won't pop hairs but it does cut arm hairs easily at the base. BTW, this is a smiling blade.

The C&S smiles as well, but won't pop arm hair at all. It cuts at the base, but not quite as easily as the Leader.

Do the wizards of honing think that my swaty can bring salvation and resurrect these blades, or am I SOL (Shoot, Outta Luck) until I can get a norton?

Thanks for your input!

Peace,

Genco and Leader are good to go. The C&S may need some work. "Strop the hell out of it" is one strategy. CrOx is another.

If all of them can at least shave hair off your face, more or less, I don't see why you shouldn't try a few strokes on the barber hone. Unless you goof up, it's not going to make it worse...

You know the Genco is good to go. On the others, give 10 or so nice and slow strokes on Swaty with "water" & strop it. Should bring it back, if it doesn't, try it one more time. Then if it doesn't bring back the shave quality you will need to take them to the stones and re-establish the bevel.

Popping hairs is sign of the dull blade.
Your blade is not shave ready.By stropping i really don't know how in the world you could bring dull blade shave ready condition without using any abrasives(pastes etc) .
your swaty will help.
hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Popping hairs is sign of the dull blade.
Your blade is not shave ready.By stropping i really don't know how in the world you could bring dull blade shave ready condition without using any abrasives(pastes etc) .
your swaty will help.
hope this helps.

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I'm confused here. Maybe it's a definition of popping hairs. Here's what I mean: I can move the Genco over my arm about 1/4" off the skin and it will catch and cut hairs with no pulling. It also shaves fantastically. Last night's shave renewed my hope in getting this figured out. The Genco is passing the shave test.

The C&S won't do what the Genco does at all. It does shave hairs off my face, but it's not close, pulls and tugs, and is not comfortable.
The Leader is about the same as the C&S for shave quality. It does a little better at toe and heel, BUT it will also pop hairs like the Genco does at toe and heel.

I don't think a dull blade can catch and cut suspended hairs AND pass the shave test (the Genco really shaved wonderfully last night).
The C&S doesn't catch and cut suspended hairs at all, and it shaves like a sharp rock (not like obsidian either).

I know you know your stuff hi_bud...it was your stropping video that gave me the "ah-ha" moment that allowed me to take my fading Genco and strop it back up to snuff. But if popping hairs (as I've defined it here) is really a sign of a dull blade then I'm missing something here!

P.S.>>>I used a chalked canvas strop followed by a textured Shumate, and then the smooth side of the shumate. My Genco had been shaving great but deteriorated to tugging and pulling. After watching your video and working through the strops I just listed it's back to shaving glory. (I did the same stropping process with the C&S and Leader, but they're not shaving well still)

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

You know the Genco is good to go. On the others, give 10 or so nice and slow strokes on Swaty with "water" & strop it. Should bring it back, if it doesn't, try it one more time. Then if it doesn't bring back the shave quality you will need to take them to the stones and re-establish the bevel.

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I'll give it a shot. I suppose if I can't get it I'll have to send them out to be re-honed anyway, so I've got nothing to lose by giving the Swaty a chance.

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Originally Posted by TheZ

If all of them can at least shave hair off your face, more or less, I don't see why you shouldn't try a few strokes on the barber hone. Unless you goof up, it's not going to make it worse...

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Yeah Z, the Genco's shaving great. The other two shave but poorly and uncomfortably.

We'll see what the Swaty can do with them, though it will probably have to wait until tomorrow night as Wednesday nights I have services.

Peace,

A razor shaving arm hairs is not a definitive test. It only means it's getting close. It's one of those things where if it won't shave arm hairs it will never shave your face but if it does shave arm hairs it may still not be shave ready.

The idea is not to let the razor fade. As soon as you notice a degradation no matter how small that's the time to take action. At that point a few strokes with some CrO or a barbers hone is all you should need. The longer you let it go the more extensive honing you will need.

Sounds like your stroke is appropriate always at the heel & toe as it seems to be the sharpest part of your razors mentioned. Maybe some selective honing or adjusting your stroke will give you results. A warp in a smiling blade will leave one side untouched & often in the middle of one side. Look at both sides under your scope & see what the dull bits look like compared to the sharp bits. Are yo getting even contact? You may need to rock your strokes some.

So I stropped and shaved the Genco last night. It was a late night affair after a very long day, but the shave was still good.

Then, winding down in front of the TV I spent about 20min on the Leader and it started catching and cutting suspended hairs (off my forearm) all along the blade. I'm ready to take it back to the strops.

I spent about an hour on the C&S and finally got it catching and cutting suspended hair (what I would call popping hairs), instead of only cutting with a shave like stroke against the skin. (which is how it shaved, albeit poorly, the other night).

I plan on stropping the Leader and giving it a shot tonight, and since it was very late when I finished with the C&S I'll look over it again before I decide whether to strop it or take it to the swaty for a little more.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

A razor shaving arm hairs is not a definitive test. It only means it's getting close. It's one of those things where if it won't shave arm hairs it will never shave your face but if it does shave arm hairs it may still not be shave ready.

The idea is not to let the razor fade. As soon as you notice a degradation no matter how small that's the time to take action. At that point a few strokes with some CrO or a barbers hone is all you should need. The longer you let it go the more extensive honing you will need.

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TBS- Both the Leader and the C&S shaved face (poorly) and arm hairs at the skin. Neither one of them could catch and cut suspended arm hairs (away from the skin). Though the Genco shaves well AND catches and cuts arm hairs. The Genco was fading and I was trying to figure out my stropping so I pulled out the C&S which was fresh from honing and supposed to be ready to go. (I sent it off to be honed) The shave was awful and I switched over to the Leader (honed by the same guy at the same time as the C&S and the Genco). The shave was only slightly better there.

I say all this to say; I agree, and was taking action on the Genco as soon as I felt degradation. Thankfully I was able to get my stropping figured out and bring the Genco back up to snuff with the Chalked Canvas/Shumate/Shumate strop series. Unfortunately that did nothing noticeable for the Leader or the C&S.

Right now my understanding is this:
1. Won't shave arm hairs = Won't shave face
2. Will only shave arm hairs = Needs more work
3. Will catch & cut suspended arm hairs = Probably ready for stropping/shaving
4. Shaves like a dream = Shaves like a dream!
(is this at least fairly accurate?)

Right now the Genco's at level 4. The Leader was at 2 in the middle and 3 at the toe and heel, now it's at 3 across the blade. The C&S was at 2 across the blade, but was at 3 across the blade as I headed for bed last night.

Oni-These razors came out of the box from a respected honer this way. The honing I did last night was the first honing I'd done to any of them (still haven't honed on the Genco at all). But both of the blades that failed to shave well (the C&S and Leader) do smile and the guy who honed them up said the Leader was giving him some trouble. Hopefully I was able to get them up to snuff last night and can enjoy them now. (oh, and I don't have a scope yet...still shopping around, though I'd take recommendations in the form of a PM).

Thanks,

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Originally Posted by BigJim

I know you know your stuff hi_bud...it was your stropping video that gave me the "ah-ha" moment that allowed me to take my fading Genco and strop it back up to snuff. But if popping hairs (as I've defined it here) is really a sign of a dull blade then I'm missing something here!









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Let me explain a little more what i said above.
Popping arm hairs?
Think this way. when blade goes against the hair there is some resistance . if your blade shave ready that resistance is not large enough before blade cuts cross hair and hairs falls down.
Now if your blade is not sharp enough -what happens? edge pushes against the hair and hair bends as this process goes on there is more resistance until blade cuts the hair as soon as this happens because of high resistance hairs pops .
4k level you will see this very obvious in skin level.
Now if you want to know what is the sharpest edges sign ?
then this is the sharpest edge.
when you try to cut the arm hairs above skin level if hair sticks the edge striaght up doesn't fall down or jump then that is the sharpest edge.
Not so many blade will come to this level.(try this test in single hair)
hope i was clear enough.

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Originally Posted by BigJim

Oni-These razors came out of the box from a respected honer this way. The honing I did last night was the first honing I'd done to any of them (still haven't honed on the Genco at all). But both of the blades that failed to shave well (the C&S and Leader) do smile and the guy who honed them up said the Leader was giving him some trouble. Hopefully I was able to get them up to snuff last night and can enjoy them now. (oh, and I don't have a scope yet...still shopping around, though I'd take recommendations in the form of a PM).

Thanks,

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PM on the way but really I just use a loupe when honing. Smilers can be a bit of an effort but so nice to shave with.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

When you try to cut the arm hairs above skin level if hair sticks the edge striaght up doesn't fall down or jump then that is the sharpest edge.
Not so many blade will come to this level.

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So true Sham & if they can reach that level not all razors will hold that edge for equal duration . This is why steel & heat treatment plays a big part as well as honing skill.

Hey guys, just an update for what it's worth. After my honing work last night, I spent this evening stropping and then shaved with the Leader. It was great! That Swaty really revived the blade, and it shaved like my Genco does!

Tomorrow I'll give the C&S a shot.

Thanks,

P.S.>>Thanks Oni for the PM, I'd been looking at those, but wasn't sure if they were worth the purchase.

And tonight I shaved with the C&S. It was everything I hoped it would be!

Thanks for your input and support!

Peace,