Basic honing questions

I'm just starting to hone on some old razors. I'm using a 3" Norton 4K/8K. When placing the blade to begin an x-pattern stroke, should the shoulder of the blade be on the stone (to get the tip off the stone and give the heel some work) or should it be off the bottom edge?

Also, I'm getting a grey straight-line mark along the bottom edge of the hone. Is this normal? I did lapp the stone on a granite tile with 800 grit sandpaper per the instructions in several other threads before I started honing.

Thanks for the help!

Jordan

They grey is metal swarf build-up and it's normal. You just want to watch how evenly it distributes itself along the hone. All at the edge means you might be over concentrating on that.

Keeping the blade lifted off the hone by putting the actual shoulder on it is a bad thing. To hone the heel, simply line upthe stabilising piece with the edge of the hone.

X

You don't need the x-pattern on a 3" norton, just angle the blade and come straight down the hone for the same effect.

The grey color is metal from the blade. This is normal. That it's concentrated on a line at the edge of the hone isn't -- it should be evenly distributed across teh entire surface of the hone. It sounds like you're not keeping the blade flat on the hone and are scraping it along one side instead.

Even though X (the pattern, not the man :D) isn't necessary when using a 3" Norton, I found that it gives me the most consistent results. Just focus on keeping the blade flat on the hone and distributing even pressure along every part of the blade. Start slowly and just focus on your technique.

I have to agree that when using a three inch hone the X pattern is not required. Just hone straight up the hone with a slight heel leading angle. The reason for the X pattern is because historically most people used narrow hones so you had to use the X pattern. Using a straight up and down motion relieves you from worrying about edge contact as part of the blade goes off the edge of the hone.

Having said that be aware that many here like that X pattern even if its on a 12 inch wide hone (of course they don't exist) and will defend it to the death. So its a matter of using both techniques and seeing which works better for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Having said that be aware that many here like that X pattern even if its on a 12 inch wide hone (of course they don't exist) and will defend it to the death.

---

They make 12-inch wide hones. They're only 3 inches long though ;-)

As several guys have told you, with the wide hone you can do the entire edge at once by moving the blade straight down the stone with heel leading.

Since you're just starting out I also suggest you use two hands. Support the handle in one hand and use the index finger of that hand to move the blade. Use the index finger of the other hand to guide the blade and make sure that you that the tip isn't lifting. Don't press hard with those fingers justguide the blade and keep it in contact with the stone.

After you get some experience and can apply uniform pressure to the blade you can try other ways to hone. But the way I suggested should give you an even edge and will lead to success quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Even though X (the pattern, not the man :D) isn't necessary when using a 3" Norton, ...

---

Neither is actually necessary ... unless you happen to BE me, which you aren't because I'm busy covering that base myself. But enough about me ... What do YOU think of me?

X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xman

Neither is actually necessary ... unless you happen to BE me, which you aren't because I'm busy covering that base myself. But enough about me ... What do YOU think of me?

X

---

Apparently you are unnecessary if we have a 3" norton :thinking: :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Since you're just starting out I also suggest you use two hands. Support the handle in one hand and use the index finger of that hand to move the blade. Use the index finger of the other hand to guide the blade and make sure that you that the tip isn't lifting. Don't press hard with those fingers justguide the blade and keep it in contact with the stone.

---

This reminds me: my honing results improved a lot when I started doing the above (i.e. guiding the blade with the index finger of the hand that does not hold the handle). It helped me a lot to apply even pressure from heel to toe. I think Joe volunteered this tip before, so a late thank you, Joe!

Thanks for all the feedback. Interesting differences in approach here. I'll try some of these and see how things go. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions on this.


Jordan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xman

Neither is actually necessary ... unless you happen to BE me, which you aren't because I'm busy covering that base myself. But enough about me ... What do YOU think of me?

---

The x-pattern is not necessary (period). It's recommended by the barber manual because it produces an angle on the microserrations which is slightly better for shaving with tip leading, as the manual suggests.

The smile is not necessary. The barber manual recommends it so you can avoid a frown. It never says it is preferable to a straight edge. And if anybody knows a reason why it might be, I'd sure like to hear it because I haven't found anything. I can see how a frown would be a problem because it creates a bulge for the edge to cut. The smile, on the other hand, creates a gradual depression, applying pressure unevenly (higher in the middle?)compared to a straight edge.

I'd also like to hear why you find these things NECESSARY. That could be of interest to a lot of us.

Joe, I like the smile because it does a good job in the area between lower jaw and neck and also in the area between the larynx (voice box) and the muscles further back. In these areas a frown wouldn't allow my blade to get in full touch with the skin when going against the grain (in most areas I do one pass only, against the grain).

The X-pattern suggested to me by many forum members has given me more consistent edges than the ellipsoid movements I used earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

... I'd also like to hear why you find these things NECESSARY. That could be of interest to a lot of us.

---

It was actually a joke, Joe. I don't really use the X pattern on the hone preferring to go straight down with the heel leading while rolling the main point of contact along from heel to tip. Also, unlike Kees, whenever I have tried to use my free hand to stabalise the tip I impeded my ability to achieve a good edge. I know it doesn't make sense and I don't know why it happens, but that's just how it is for me.

Like Kees, I prefer smiles in tight corners like my jawline, but also to get the proper against the grain direction beside my adams apple. Those hairs grow straight out sideways and that means a vertical attack with the razor, but the tip and tang on a flat edge tend to get hung up on my jaw and collarbone repectively. A good wide smile lets the middle of the edge reach a little further beyond the extremities. I'm also more comfortable with a steeper cutting angle since the tip will be reaching back for less angle than the middle of the edge.

X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xman

...I don't really use the X pattern on the hone preferring to go straight down with the heel leading while rolling the main point of contact along from heel to tip.

X

---

X, what do you mean by "rolling the main point of contact". I assume you're not lifting any portion of the blade. Do you mean you're "emphasizing" or putting a little extra "pressure" along the length of the edge as you move it - with the emphasis rolling up the blade, so to speak? Thanks.

Jordan

He's talking about "smiling" blades (where the blade has a belly to it). These require a different technique since you can't get the entire edge on the hone at once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mparker762

He's talking about "smiling" blades (where the blade has a belly to it). These require a different technique since you can't get the entire edge on the hone at once.

---

I gotcha. Thanks

And I find that even for "flat" blades, the subtlest rolling action helps even the hone job. Trying to use even pressure throughout the stroke on a relatively flat blade will ensure that the tip receives different pressure than the heel and the edge will be inconsistent along its length. An off hand stabilising grip with a few fingers might be a different solution for some guys, but as I've said, it just doesn't want to fly for me.

X