Honemeister advice needed badly!

I'll try to be as brief as possibe. First I'll list my equipment:

DOVO Stainless steel (ice tempered whatever that means) razor
Norton 3" combo 4k/8k stone

Jemico russian red strop Note: I did do the break in procedure on it because it did'nt lay flat. Got it wet, heavy weight on flat surface for about 8 hours, then rubbed with pumice stone, then stiff lather, clean, stiff lather with hand and bottle. Seems to be flatter but not perfect. Linen side seems to put a better edge on it.

Now here's the problem. I think I'm very close to getting a good edge on it. After failing to get the HHT, I found and did the pyramid on it once though (checking often). The edge seemed to be about the same every time. Like I just hit a road block. I could only get it to pass the fingernail tests (45 deg tilt, and regular passing over wet nail). It just would'nt pass the HHT. It would catch one every now and then somwhere on the blade but not like it should. Even after stropping a buttload. Then, i decided to try the linen side of the strop. Big improvement. Passed the HHT on MOST of the blade. It seemed just a bit dull from the point down a centimeter or two. I'm using the most even pressure on the hone, paying very close attention and going as slow as I need to. Even on the rest of the blade it seems to struggle a bit with the HHT. I tried to shave today and while it did actually shave, it was nowhere near where it needs to be. Very uncomfortable. Had to pick up the DE. Anyways, here's my questions:

1.Should it pass the HHT before it ever goes to the strop?
2.It my strop in need of more flattening possibly (since the linen seems to work best
3.What the heck am I doing wrong? I'm about to go crazy. I have been doing tons of research and I've been on this for days now!

Thank you guys so much for any advice. I'm not giving up, and I love this site!

Well, I'll let the true honemeisters answer the honing questions.

But, with regards to the 'breaking in' of your strop, it sure doesn't sound like something I would do to mine. The leather should be more or less soft and very smooth. Shouldn't be stiff, definitely not.
with regards to the flatness, pull the strop tight like you would do when stropping, then lay a razor flat on the strop without pressure. Check that the entire edge is in contact with the strop (more or less if the strop is narrower only for that width of course). Try different spots on the strop.

If you find your strop is not flat (eg the edges are raised or thicker) take some strop paste and massage it into the strop, especially around the 'too thick' areas.
Place the strop on a hard and flat surface. Then take a flat and smooth and preferably heavy item, such as a COLD iron and run it over the strop with some pressure.

If the razor doesn't touch the strop over the entire edge (or the strop width), stropping will not do anything, so you gotta fix the strop first.

Redwoood

The Jemico strops are nicely made, especially the Red Russian but I find they tend to be quite stiff and often cup if anywhere near moisture. Many of the vegtable tanned leathers will do this if undressed.

As Ilija said, you need to get it laying flat first in order to be effective stropping. The dressing should help in this regard.


Tony

Send me a PM with your phone number or contact me via Skype. Yahoo or MSN. We will discuss honing your razor.

And you better do it if you know what's good for you. Not doing it is like passing up on a free driving lesson from Michael Schumacher.

will do.....that's an offer I can't refuse! I definetly would like talk to a pro!

I have an Illinois 361 strop which is very stiff and I had slight cupping issues with untill I conditioned with mink oil about a year ago. I'm thinking I may need to do it again soon since It's been trapped in transit for so long. All the flattening and rubbing I did was beneficial but hardly noticeable as compared to having conditioned the leather properly and rubbed it again.

Honing is a fine art and likely the most important aspect is to give the entire edge an even honing. That way if it's bad, at least it's bad the same way all along and wht you do next, if done evenly along the edge should give you the same result throughout.

To answer your questions frm my own perspective;

1. That's the goal yes, but the HHT is ultimately just one of many indicators used to determine shaveability. It works better for some than others. The shave is the real test.
2. The linen is interesting stuff because it seems to make the blade respond to teh striopping action. The leather is for final smoothing. Follow the linen with leather as directed and it should be both responsive and smooth. Condition and smooth the leather well to be sure the condition of the leather is not a factor in substandard shaving.
3. Patience! The going crazy part is revealing. Focus your attention calmly and entirely on the task. If it's still not going well after a half an hour ... walk away and think about it some more. Like I say, evenness along the edge. I use the Rolling Hone method to help me achieve it, but I prefer 'smiling' blades which are in obvious need of such a technique. Another thing which is very impotant is the amount of pressure you're using. At the beginnign of the pyramid you can afford to apply some pressure, but ease off to next o none for the finish, all the time being consistent along the edge. Skype with Randy and you'll be in very good shape with regards to your approach to the hone.

Don't worry, it won't be much longer.

X

Depending on where the razor is in your current progression with the Norton on the Stainless blades, I typically use more strokes when on the finishing end with the 8K side. So long as your strop is not stiff and you are keeping the blade very flat when stropping, you should be fine. Try a 3-3, 1-5 and 1-7 progression on the Norton 4K/8K, then strop and test shave. I really do not rely on either the HHT or thumbnail testing. You can always refine with either a couple of 1-5s or 1-7s and see. You may even want to try 5 or 7 on the 8K side only, then strop and test.

Have fun.

Lynn

well, here's an update: I followed randy's advice with the agressive 10-5 and gave it a few extra on the 8k to finish it off. Stropped 50 times and had to do the test shave on my chest. I think it still needs work. It shaved ok but I can tell I would'nt enjoy it on my face. I might try tomorrow morning anyway. It really want's to pass the HHT evenly over the blade so I do think it's getting closer. Thanks again for all the tips and especially to randy!