newbie: microscopic chip

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08-14-2006, 01:10 AM
schatz

newbie: microscopic chip

I just finished honing my first razor - a JR Torrey Army stamped model with little prior use. After rewatching Bill's video on honing and realizing I needed about 2 pounds of pressure on the Norton to start, I was delighted that it got nice and sharp using a thumbnail test and a comparison to my other shave ready razors. (This was after my first few unsuccessful pyraminds where I was not applying any pressure).

In any event, after a quick tuneup on 1u and .5u pastes with Tony's pasted strop, and about 50 or so laps on a hanging strop, I gave it a try. Fortunately, nice and sharp but I suffered 3 or 4 cuts which I didn't expect. Got out the radioshack 100 power scope and noticed a small chip, about 15% of the width of the edge (not the width of the blade) that is not visible to my naked eye. Should I work with the 4k side of my Norton at 90% to simulate a grind or would I be better off taking the blade over to a friend who has a bench grinder and starting from scratch. I don't currently own any coarser stones although I do have plenty of sandpaper and a marble tile.

The JR Torrey is a learner that I bought for restoration and honing practice for under $10 delivered. Howerver, it seems like a nice razor so I don't desire to ruin it.
08-14-2006, 01:35 AM
schatz

Just found Bill's answer on his cd

From Bill's cd

--------------------
"Hold a fine grit snap-on disc, attached to a rotary tool of course, perpendicular to the blade. Very lightly, run the disc at a low speed along the edge to remove the nicks and also true up the straightness of the blade."
___________

This cd is simply wonderful and well worth the modest purchase price.

Guess I should have done more research before posting. Will a 90% angle on the 4k Norton also work or would the dremel be best on a nick this small?
08-14-2006, 01:35 AM
sensei_kyle

A bench grinder would be overkill for something that size. I would imagine the 4K would do the trick with a little work. My first straight was a JR Torrey 5/8, and is still a regular shaver. I'm sure some of the regular honemeisters will chime in as well, possibly with some other methods.
08-14-2006, 02:59 AM
thebigspendur

If its a real tiny chip the 4K is all you need. I usually do a combination of circular and back and forth honing until the chip is gone. A 1K will make it go faster but you have to be careful because a 1K cuts so fast.
08-14-2006, 04:23 AM
gglockner

Did the nick cause the cut or was it just your shaving? If you can not see the nick I would doubt you would notice. Still we don't like nicks do we? If you put some tape on the spine and do circular motions ( use the 4k ) on each side of the edge until you can not see it with the microscope, then hone as you normally would.

Glen
08-14-2006, 04:32 AM
schatz

Thanks guys

Thanks for your advice. I'll give the 4k a try as suggested.
08-14-2006, 05:49 AM
Joe Lerch

A nick that size should have shown up in the thumbnail test. You would have felt the razor jump slightly as the chip passed.

You don't grind the blade for a microchip. You can work it out with the 4K hone. Line up the blade with the length of the hone so the entire edge touches the stone surface at once. Then do circular strokes, five on each side until the chip is almost gone. Continue with normal honing until the dge looks even, and finish on the 8K, or whatever other way you hone (pyramids?) umtil the edge passes your sharpness test.
08-14-2006, 11:52 AM
Joe Chandler

I'll go with Joe on this one. The 4K is plenty. I'd probably work up a slurry on the 4k to get a nick out. Tape the spine w/2 layers of scotch tape, do 20 round trips, then check the edge. When the nick is gone, go to one layer and hone as normal. Make very sure your stone is clean before honing (and wash off the slurry once the nick is gone), particularly on the 8k. Everytime I get a nick in the edge, it seems to have come from the 8k stone, due to some piece of stray grit that got on there. By the time you're ready for the 8k, the edge is extremely delicate.
08-14-2006, 03:35 PM
schatz

The advice was a winner / slurry work up?

I used the 4k side with a piece of masking tape (is scotch tape better?) starting with circles and ending with normal honing. At various intervals I checked the 100power scope for my progress. Worked like a charm. Thanks so much.

A previous post asked if I was sure the cuts were from my razor and not from my technique. As I have been using a se for only about 2 weeks, I certainly do not have the history to be sure of this issue. I'll defer to the better judgement of your collective experience if you guys think a microchip is not capable of causing cuts. In any event, the cuts were very minor and part of my learning curve. As an aside, Moma bear had sent me a healing stick with my last soap order which works quite well.

Let me conclude with another related newbie question. The last reply said to work up a slurry. Isn't the slurry the result of the honing. If not, how does one work up the slurry before the honing is initiated?
08-14-2006, 03:58 PM
mparker762

A microchip may cause a scratch, but shouldn't cause a nick. A macrochip might, though.
08-14-2006, 04:20 PM
Joe Chandler

Quote:

Originally Posted by schatz

I used the 4k side with a piece of masking tape (is scotch tape better?) starting with circles and ending with normal honing. At various intervals I checked the 100power scope for my progress. Worked like a charm. Thanks so much.

A previous post asked if I was sure the cuts were from my razor and not from my technique. As I have been using a se for only about 2 weeks, I certainly do not have the history to be sure of this issue. I'll defer to the better judgement of your collective experience if you guys think a microchip is not capable of causing cuts. In any event, the cuts were very minor and part of my learning curve. As an aside, Moma bear had sent me a healing stick with my last soap order which works quite well.

Let me conclude with another related newbie question. The last reply said to work up a slurry. Isn't the slurry the result of the honing. If not, how does one work up the slurry before the honing is initiated?

A light slurry is, in fact, the result of honing. A heavier slurry to start with will just cut a bit faster, lessening the amount of time it takes to work the nick out. The best way I've found to build the slurry is to use a nagura stone ($6.95 from Lee Valley Tools). And yes, IMO, scotch tape is much better than masking tape. It's plastic, as opposed to the paper masking tape. It clogs your stone less, and is easier to wash off. Plus in 1 or 2 layers, it's much thinner, so you change your honing angle less, while still protecting the spine from excess wear. You can actually use electrical tape, which is great for really heavy work. It takes forever to wear through on the stone, but puts lots of black crap on your stone you'll need to clean off. With the slurry (for the heavy work only, like removing nicks and chips) the black stuff doesn't really embed in the stone, and is very easy to clean off.
08-14-2006, 08:56 PM
randydance062449

That is a very small nick. If it is not causing you irritation while shaving then just ignore it. If you must get rid of it then go back to the 4K stone and hone it out. I avoid using the circular honing stroke unless it is a larger nick.

Just my two cents,:)
08-14-2006, 09:31 PM
Joe Lerch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

I'd probably work up a slurry on the 4k to get a nick out. Tape the spine w/2 layers of scotch tape.

THis chip is only 15% of the bevel (.004"). I don't think you really need to tape for one this small. In fact, you may even save some material because you don't need to correect the bevel angles.