"Too Sharp"?!?!

I just heard that my edges were too sharp.
Like many my primary goal in honing is to increase smoothness. I have held back my HAD recently...seriously...well...my hope was to focus on what I have and get the most out of each.
The razor in question was one of my smoothest shavers yet. It was high quality american steel honed on a japanese progression. I even offered a buyback policy to the new owner since I really enjoyed this edge.
I might have to start rolling my edges before I send them off :D
So, what is your take on the "too sharp" statement?

I have never experienced an edge that was 'too sharp'. Including the various feather razors with different types of their blades.

P.S. I don't consider overhoned razor 'too sharp', I consider it simply overhoned. There is a limit of each razor beyond which the steel cannot support a smooth and straight edge but going beyond that limit doesn't make a razor any sharper, actually in many important respects it makes the razor duller.

Perfect person to answer that question is Gugi, as he owns the absolute "Sharpest" razor I have ever honed... his Frank Hess XX is sooo sharp it rivals and maybe surpasses most Japanese Kamisori yet is also silk on the face...

First thought to mind is that a properly sharp razor really demands good technique. A razor that cuts beard well is sharp, no question there, but some go far beyond that. For me, there is no limit to how sharp I want my razors to be - nor is there a limit to the smoothness I want in them. On the contrary, the sharper the razor, the better the (potential) ability to give a totally smooth and comfortable shave. Unless you nick yourself :p

I call these edges "under-stropped"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gugi

I have never experienced an edge that was 'too sharp'.

---

+1

I've received the same comment off razors honed off Shapton GS stones a couple times & I never let a razor leave my house without shaving with them...so I knew that they were right. Funny thing though is that I have never had that comment stated when I use the Naniwa's...

My question points more towards the user and questions their shaving experience.

I had a razor that was too sharp once and through my whiskers it just sailed.
I thought I could improve upon that edge but in the effort I sadly failed.
So I breadknifed it, started at 1K went to 4K and up through my normal progression.
But after a wire edge, some micro-chips and multiple failed HHTs, I realized my transgression.

[QUOTE=deighaingeal;795321So, what is your take on the "too sharp" statement?[/QUOTE]

Ignorance.

Seems to me that it may be the end user, who thinks it is "too sharp", may not yet be proficient in shave technique. Mistaking too much pressure, inadequate stretching, as the source of irritation and/or nicks. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Seems to me that it may be the end user, who thinks it is "too sharp", may not yet be proficient in shave technique. Mistaking too much pressure, inadequate stretching, as the source of irritation and/or nicks. :shrug:

---

Well, sure. If you want to be more polite about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

Well, sure. If you want to be more polite about it.

---

It's nice to be nice. :)

So far the comments have supported my theory. I will send another email to him suggesting he send it back. If he wants i might just hit it with a coticule, I found out that he is used to those edges.

I look forward to sitting and honing with you so you can try and teach me how to get one of those edge on my razor
Glenn C

To me, there is no such thing as too sharp. I am still in search of the "perfect edge" even after all the thousands of razors I've honed. I really want the ultimate sharpness I can get on every blade and this usually will provide an effortless shave requiring little pressure when shaving. The "Too Sharp" comments have come from a couple of groups over the years and have been without merit in my opinion. By the way, you can get a razor really sharp off a Coticule. It's just not the most consistent or the bestest stone out there. It is worth owning and using though. We do however, develop our own preferences in types of razors and have our own levels of ability at honing razors. I am reminded of a Barber I had over the house one time who said, " Now I know what sharp is". Again for me, Sharp is where it's at for close and comfy shaving.

Have fun,

Lynn

"Too sharp" - that can be words of a man who managed to shave with properly honed razor after using dull razor for a long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

"Too sharp" - that can be words of a man who managed to shave with properly honed razor after using dull razor for a long time.

---

This actually is a good point. I have run into many people over the years used to shaving with a razor that was not at it's peak of sharpness. They simply were used to it. They got a respectable shave and that was all that mattered. Usually, once they get to shave with a really well honed razor, the light bulb goes on and the quest begins. And.........the level of enjoyment increases immediately.

Have fun.

People who shave with a dull razor tend to use more pressure while shaving. If you give a sharp razor to him, he will use the same pressure, because he is used to it, and this will get him razorburn. This would be my best bet what happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

I just heard that my edges were too sharp.
Like many my primary goal in honing is to increase smoothness. I have held back my HAD recently...seriously...well...my hope was to focus on what I have and get the most out of each.
The razor in question was one of my smoothest shavers yet. It was high quality american steel honed on a japanese progression. I even offered a buyback policy to the new owner since I really enjoyed this edge.
I might have to start rolling my edges before I send them off :D
So, what is your take on the "too sharp" statement?

---

will be great if you let the person knows about this thread and come up explain to us what he means by too Sharp>
while he shaves he feels harsh feelings?
or he shaves half of his face and for next half he forced to strop?
so on.
In this case we will have his side of history and meaning of " too sharp"
just my 0.2 cent.

I talked to him on the phone today. He said that he doesn't know how else to explain it, but all of his razors up to this point were honed by a member of another forum and they didnt feel as sharp. I explained the pressure thing and emailed him a link to this thread; while not active he is a member here and can post. I hope that he does.
I offered to change finishers, but he doesnt want to bother with the shipping hassle. There is another member withing 30 miles of him, he said that he could contact him for rehoning if needed.

Double 'N': i would be glad to have you shave with some of my razors before we change any of yours. Then if you like it we can switch you over. Plus I have some new toys to show off.

Lynn: I know that a coticule edge can get quite keen as well, but I hope that with the communication error, that might be the feel he was looking for.

He can send one to me, dullness is kind of a specialty of mine!

I think you probably did very well in the razor that you sent out. You stated you used a Japanese progression which tells me that the bevel had the typical matted finish and smooth homogenous edge which is just about perfect for anybody that has a modicum amount of experience with properly honed razors. I usually stop at a very light slurry on my Asagi and that is about right for someone that I do not know. There is also the point to be made that if one stops there, and is giving it to someone who has a lot of experience, that a few laps on the felt will tune up any properly hone razor. Me, personally, I like 5 laps on CBN which is my weapon of choice after the final step off the rocks and I would never think of giving such an edge to anyone that I did not know.

It is very hard honing for someone else and I tip my hat to the guys that do a lot of it. I would like to do more because I really enjoy honing with my J-Nats but I have enough going on in my life without adding more.

Good luck,
Richard

"Sharp is what sharp does! " Put it to the leather!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

So, what is your take on the "too sharp" statement?

---

my take is that it was possibly said in jest, by inexperience, or a misunderstanding of the term

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

So far the comments have supported my theory. I will send another email to him suggesting he send it back. If he wants i might just hit it with a coticule, I found out that he is used to those edges.

---

Gerrit, I'm just starting to hone for others, and am fielding the other complaint - not sharp enough w/ an HHT4. 'Not to put too much weight on HHT, but they're clearly at minimum, in a decent ballpark. I use cotis and asagi. They're not the crispy/brisk edge, but deliver the goods. I found after repeated discussion, one person thought the edge should feel like a DE edge. We're kinda shooting in the dark, trying hard to guestimate or interpret verbal reports of preferences.

On 'too sharp', I find at some level of keenness, it gets so demanding of technique, I no longer enjoy the shave. I'm sure it says more about my skills than the edge. If the person involved is used to coti smoothness (I'm ducking here while Glen reacts to my saying cotis are smooth :) ) it would make sense to crank the smooth side. I also think that the offer to take it back and refund is extremely classy, and I applaud your making the offer and the wisdom in doing so. I did the same.

'Hope it resolves well. I know its a hard target to hit sometimes.

I did a Shumate for a local member a year or two ago, he said it was so sharp he had to put it down, he came back to it a couple of weeks later and decided he needed to pick up his game. Though he has other more expensive blades, he loves the old Shumate.

My take on this is pretty much the same as everyone elses, too much pressure while shaving.

drawing from my limited experience in straight razor shaving the same thing happen to me i was use to a coti edge when i went to use chromium oxide .5 and diamond spray .25 on felt the razor i thought was to sharp i had weepers all over the place i came to realize that it was my technique using to much pressure thats what honing and shaving have in common using a lite touch will give best results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eleblu05

drawing from my limited experience in straight razor shaving the same thing happen to me i was use to a coti edge when i went to use chromium oxide .5 and diamond spray .25 on felt the razor i thought was to sharp i had weepers all over the place i came to realize that it was my technique using to much pressure thats what honing and shaving have in common using a lite touch will give best results.

---

+1

A lot of people have harsh shaves because of bad shaving, or honing techniques. It is easier to blame the diamond pastes for being harsh, than to learn to use them, and to shave with them. If done right, you can have a smooth shave from nearly any finishing method, be it paste, hone, lapping film, or anything else.

"Too sharp" does not exist for my beard! :) Harsh is another thing & I totally agree w/ the poster who said that a basically overhoned (maybe not a true wire edge, but perhaps microchipping or something similar) edge will actually act duller than a properly honed edge--I learned that the hard way years ago.

For me a nice sharp edge that cuts effortlessly is not only much smoother on my face, but also lasts much longer before a touchup is needed (less force required to move it through the barbed wire i.e. beard equals less stress on both the edge & the skin). In short: it's a technique issue.

I really can't understand someone wanting a blade to be "less sharp" as I would equate that with a tugging uncomfortable shave.

Re "too sharp", I think that can only correctly be applied in reference to the steel eg "this edge is too sharp for the steel to hold integrity for more than half a shave." Even then "too sharp" is probably better described as too fine or too thin, or the old favourite, overhoned.

You guys that are starting to hone for others have to consider some VIP things. The customer is always right, even when they're wrong :p
They're paying you to hone a razor how they like it not how you like it. If both overlap you're doing well :D
Of course newbs need to learn technique with a properly sharp razor but all I'm saying is don't force your beliefs on them. In time they're skills may improve & they may seek a closer shave... or not. It's really their choice & experience.

Not everybody's face & skill level with a blade is the same as yours & customers with sensitive skins will test your mettle. Also as hinted not every blade can take those sub atomic edges we strive for & hold them. What you send out believing to be pristine may be quite degraded after you tested it, in which case you may need to hone more with durability as a priority & also have a method & parameters to test for this.
Just my 2ç ,YMMV, yada yada yada :)