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I recived Bengall 5/8 full hollow with frown and smile on it (they are about 1 mm in deepest point). Frown is from the heel to the middle and smile is from the middle to the toe.
So, I need advice about straightening the blade.
Will you reccomend "bread knifing" or some other technique to straightening the blade and to start setting bevel with straight blade not one as I described above?
Attachment 71549
Thx
I think this is just a frown.
Hone it out.
Precisely it's wavy blade (not seen so good on the photo).
The way to fix it is to hone it out.
For faster work you can lift the spine ~30* of the hone do circles until the blade is even then set bevel.
One thing that might be a problem is the spine, it is worn out right above the frown and might need fixing too.
Just to be subtle about it...
DO NOT BREADKNIFE THAT RAZOR!!!
Breadknifing creates a lot more work and would be drastically excessive overkill for the minor edge issue this razor has. The first step is to get a clear visual sense of how much work you have to do. This is most easily accomplished by holding the razor perpendicular to a hone and then holding the razor and hone up to a light so that you can see the gap between the blade and the hone. Now that you see what you have, you can start honing it out.
You do this by honing on a coarse hone and slightly lifting the spine. This slightly increased angle will quickly remove the lowest points on the edge. Occasionally check your progress by holding the razor and hone up to the light again. When the edge is straight, or when there is only a slight smile at the toe and/or heel, commence normal honing with the spine on the hone to quickly set the bevel.
I definitely will not do breadknifing.
As I told the gap is about 1-1,5 mm. I was thinking about adding 2-3 layers of tape and hone out the frown with tape on the spine. It's very hard to fix blade on 30 degrees or so (I know that from knife sharpening) so I was thinking about adding tape.
When I hone out the "frown" I was thinking about to leave just one layer of tape (or no one) set the bevel and finish honing with progression.
How would you do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Thx
the dreaded smirk! I'd hone using whatever strokes necessary to make the best contact possible between hone and blade along the edge until a bevel began to form from heel to toe
Hiya King,
I'm very new to razors, but not so much to honing.
If it were me, i'd be inclined to hone it until it's flat, or send it off for a rough regrind you could then work with and tune up. This would no doubt make things a lot easier in the long run instead of having a "quirky" razor you have to adjust your honing technique to.
Whatever you do with it, good luck! it looks like a real quality blade. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
Try some X strokes and use the magic marker trick.
A smile or a frown is not a bad thing... it is just a
natural shape that manufacturing and use over time can
leave on a razor.
The fact that this Bengall has this shape tells
me that someone used it for years with a narrow
hone or small barber hone.
When setting the bevel and honing this razor
go with the flow and use hone strokes that
a magic marker test indicates that the hone
works the entire edge.
This is a common "use induced" shape and
can be the indication of a great shaver. Do
not be in too big a hurry to correct it.
If you keep your hones lapped flat it will self correct
over time.
Yes, It is possible to speed up this correction...
but do not begin by bread knifing the razor.
Do a Google site search for hints on this common topic:
site:straightrazorplace.com honing a frown
The magic marker trick is your friend. Pick a
color you can see with ease.
Tommorow I will start honing this razor and I will report with pics after I finish it.
Thx to all of you who write your recommendations.
I looked more closely at the pic, and the spine does not look that as symmetric.Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
SO I would tape and work like that, use magic marker to look how the progress is going and change tape often.
If you have to fix a spine, in general just hone with no tape until you get full contact between bevel and stone.
After almost 5 hours I finish the blade. Frown is gone in hystory :beer2:
So, I honed as follows:
1. I lift the spine for about 30 degrees and did circle moves (it took almost 1 hour on Naniwa 1k)
2. after that I try to set bevel with 2 tape layers but then problem start, it was not possible to do that, obviously the problem was in spine wear so I decide to move all tape and continue without tape
3. after almost 2 hours the bevel was set (on Naniwa 1k, unfortunatelly I do not have coarser stone and I know that everything would be less paintfull with coarser stone), finally razor was able to shave arm hairs
4. after that I did one cutting move over the glas and continue with Coticule
5. stroping and test shaving
After all I can say that today was a funny day and I like Sheffield Stell more and more.
I try to make photo of the blade but unfortunatelly my photo skills are miles far from my honning skills.
Once more time thanks to all who give their advices yesterday.
Btw., Mainaman, yes the spine wear is pretty uneven and more than 1/16" but now after all it's possible to hone razor flat on the stone (there is no need for some special strokes).
http://s2.pticica.com/foto/0001143923_l_0_hahlin.jpg
Given that you did not trash the spine after those hours of honing, I have to wonder, did you use any pressure while setting the spine?
The spine was in pretty bad condition before I start any honing job. It was worn unevelly both sides. I use some pressure but not so much, so I think that hours of honning do not affect the spine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Btw. most of the time I try to set bevel with added tape (I do not have idea why it was not possible to set bevel with added tape, I suppose that Naniwa 1k was to fine for removing lots of steel after 30 degrees removing frown). When I remove tape the bevel was set in less than 30 minutes.
Keep in mind that when the goal is to remove a lot of steel, pressure is your friend. Pressure is bad on the high grit hones but on the lower grits, don't be afraid to push down. It might have saved you a couple hours of your life!
it is hard to set a bevel when the tape wears faster than the steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
As I told I use some pressure but not so much, without pressure I assume honing will lasts for days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Yes, I am on your side 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
In past I used one layer of tape to correct bevel or to hone out chip but that's tottaly different story from this today when I need to remove much more steel to set bevel.
In that case tape wears much more faster than steel and it's very hard to keep the same angle no matter how fast I change weared tape with new one.
That's reason why setting bevel without tape took less than 30 min.
Good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
It is nice to see a man that knows what he wants and does it.:popcorn:
It has been proved that the shortest distance between two points actually is a straight line, and you just took a 5 hour route for a 10 minute journey... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
Nothing wrong with taking the scenic route just so long is that was your intention...
Yes, it was a funny trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I was not sure how long I will need to set the bevel without tape and I think if it will took so long that I will ruin spine much more so I decide to put tape but when I saw that will be "Sizif job" I decide to remove it and proceed without.
Btw. this was my first honing of frown in past few years of my honing experience and all of that on Sheffield steel.
Definitely for such kind of job one needs coarser stone than Naniwa 1k and all can be finished in no more than 30-45 minutes.
I didn't find it that funny King2011...
Looks like to me you found out what needed to be done... and did it.
1. Way to go on your command of the English Language.
2. Excellent understanding of the tips given.
3. A Masterly touch of your own skill coupled with forum knowledge.
Bravo!
Well done... well done!
The spine always determines the edge. A frowning edge will usually have corresponding spine wear that needs correcting but you worked that out :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KING2011
