What honing stage do I start at?

I got a "shave ready" razor from "The Superior Shave". He promised me I didn't need to strop before my first shave. Not sure if it was as sharp as he claimed, since I have no previous str8 shaving experience. Either way, it was sharp enough to pass the arm shaving test, but tugged a bit during my shave. I since purchased a piece of balsa wood and applied CrOx to it. Did a few passes and may have dulled the blade when the edge dug a little into the wood. The blade still passes the arm shave test, but I'm not sure if I can get it to a super sharp edge with CrOx alone. If I wanted to hone, where would I start? 4k? 8k? 1 micron, .5 microns? This honing thing is making my head hurt. I'm really hoping to be able to achieve a scary sharp blade so I can practice my shaving with a blade I know is good. Worst case scenario, I'll get it professionally honed, but I'd like to try to do it myself first.

I know I jumped into honing way too fast... I've only shaved with a straight once... but I have this perfectionist side of me that wants to master everything all at once. I'm already catching myself looking at coticules online. :banghead:

If you insist on doing it yourself then start with a finisher. You will do less damage with a higher grit stone, besides why remove more material than is needed?
I would still highly suggest starting with a shave ready edge because as a beginner (as you know) you still don't have a feel for what is truly sharp. I know of quite a few guys who have started honing along with shaving right off the bat, many became frustrated and quit, but others honed their own for a while and still ended up sending at least one razor off to be professionally honed. I'm not saying that its not possible to learn both together, but it will severely delay progress on both fronts. At least for a little while longer try to start with a pro edge. As you found with your balsa, even backhoning is a difficult task.

How was it that the edge dug into the strop, where you stropping edge first? Does the blade shave arm hair its entire length? Generally you do want to start with a finisher for the above reasons, but if you dug it into a balsa strop parts of the blade may need to be rehoned b/c of damage. If it seems like it is shaving arm hair for its length then you may just try stropping it into shape with that .5 micron, going up to 1 micron or higher if needed.

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Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

I got a "shave ready" razor from "The Superior Shave". He promised me I didn't need to strop before my first shave. Not sure if it was as sharp as he claimed, since I have no previous str8 shaving experience. Either way, it was sharp enough to pass the arm shaving test, but tugged a bit during my shave. I since purchased a piece of balsa wood and applied CrOx to it. Did a few passes and may have dulled the blade when the edge dug a little into the wood. The blade still passes the arm shave test, but I'm not sure if I can get it to a super sharp edge with CrOx alone. If I wanted to hone, where would I start? 4k? 8k? 1 micron, .5 microns? This honing thing is making my head hurt. I'm really hoping to be able to achieve a scary sharp blade so I can practice my shaving with a blade I know is good. Worst case scenario, I'll get it professionally honed, but I'd like to try to do it myself first.

I know I jumped into honing way too fast... I've only shaved with a straight once... but I have this perfectionist side of me that wants to master everything all at once. I'm already catching myself looking at coticules online. :banghead:

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You are really going waaay too fast here, you bought a professionally honed razor, and of course it will be tugging for your fist shave, because your technique sucks! Think less and shave more. The sharpest razor on earth would still tug when you are new. I'm new to this myself and my technique still sucks as well, but it's getting better by each shave, but I don't expect "perfect" shaves in a long time.
Now that you probably have dulled the razor, you should have it honed again. By someone good at it.

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Originally Posted by Pete_S

How was it that the edge dug into the strop, where you stropping edge first? Does the blade shave arm hair its entire length? Generally you do want to start with a finisher for the above reasons, but if you dug it into a balsa strop parts of the blade may need to be rehoned b/c of damage. If it seems like it is shaving arm hair for its length then you may just try stropping it into shape with that .5 micron, going up to 1 micron or higher if needed.

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The full length shaves arm hair very well. I was honing with the spine leading... the problem was when I flipped the blade I would occasionally move the blade ever so slightly in the wrong direction, taking a small bit of leather/balsa wood with it. I've since honed very carefully on balsa and stropped (again, very carefully). It seems to be shaving arm hair a bit better. I'm gonna give it a shave test as soon as I can. I have two Gencos in relatively good shape coming from eBay. Once I get those, I'll probably send my Dovo out to get professionally honed and practice my honing on the vintage blades.

I'm an impatient bastard and can't keep myself from learning to hone. Something about the idea of shaping a blade with my own hands just appeals too strongly to my inner caveman.

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Either way, it was sharp enough to pass the arm shaving test, but tugged a bit during my shave.

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1. Do you mean that it "popped" arm hair when you ran the edge above the skin?

2. Or do you mean that it "shaved" arm hair when you ran the edge _on_ the skin?

If (1), the razor was probably sharp enough to shave with. "Tugging" is a common complaint when your prep isn't adequate, or your blade angle is wrong.

If (2), the test was meaningless.

See if you can get the edge back with CrOxide (remembering that you're _stropping_, not _honing_). If not, send it out for honing, to get a "known-good" edge.

Charles

PS -- I'm one of the people who learned to sharpen, hone, and shave at the same time. I don't recommend it.

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Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

The full length shaves arm hair very well. I was honing with the spine leading... the problem was when I flipped the blade I would occasionally move the blade ever so slightly in the wrong direction, taking a small bit of leather/balsa wood with it. I've since honed very carefully on balsa and stropped (again, very carefully). It seems to be shaving arm hair a bit better. I'm gonna give it a shave test as soon as I can. I have two Gencos in relatively good shape coming from eBay. Once I get those, I'll probably send my Dovo out to get professionally honed and practice my honing on the vintage blades.

I'm an impatient bastard and can't keep myself from learning to hone. Something about the idea of shaping a blade with my own hands just appeals too strongly to my inner caveman.

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I'm not sure what to make of it shaving arm hair better. If its shave ready it should pretty much do that effortlessly. Arm hair is a good test to see if the edge has been badly damaged. If it was having trouble doing that than you might have some problems. At this point I'd just give it a hundred extra strops on the linen and do what you're planning. If the shave is no good at all (much, much worse than the first), then you'll need to take care of it.

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Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

The full length shaves arm hair very well. I was honing with the spine leading... the problem was when I flipped the blade I would occasionally move the blade ever so slightly in the wrong direction, taking a small bit of leather/balsa wood with it. I've since honed very carefully on balsa and stropped (again, very carefully). It seems to be shaving arm hair a bit better. I'm gonna give it a shave test as soon as I can. I have two Gencos in relatively good shape coming from eBay. Once I get those, I'll probably send my Dovo out to get professionally honed and practice my honing on the vintage blades.

I'm an impatient bastard and can't keep myself from learning to hone. Something about the idea of shaping a blade with my own hands just appeals too strongly to my inner caveman.

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Right mate, great that you're so into this, it's admirable, but like Blix said, you need to back off and slow down before you start costing yourself money and, possibly a nasty slash to the face. You don't have any idea what sharp means yet in order to hone it up, and from what you've said you experienced tugging with a shave ready razor, basically because your techniques not up to it. I'll tell you this, you're more like to cut your self with a dull razor than a sharp one because it's more like to grab the hair and turn in as you shave. That and you're going to have razorburn, ingrowing hairs and all that..

Take it from someone who has been where you are very recently. I'm three months in, and only now i'm i starting to get an idea of what sharp means, mainly because I have 4 straights at varying degrees of sharpness. I can shave arm hair with a razor i got recently that is basically blunt and had minor nibbles in it. Doesn't mean i'd put it to my face. I have a razor that was used solid for 6 weeks, 3 passes and that's getting tired.

Get your stropping and shaving and lathering right first.

Rushing into things is generally not recommended, unless maybe you're diving into really cold water....then it's a good idea not to linger.

I will stress, much like the others, that you need to take a deep breath and slow down. I understand your impatient nature, I have one too. I also understand your perfectionist nature, I have that too. I'm going to guess you'll a little obsessive....I have that too. But with razors, there is nothing about them that is worth rushing or being impatient.

Here are some examples:
- rush learning to shave, and you'll probably nick yourself. take the time to learn your angles and pressure.

- rush a set of scales, and you'll probably gouge them while you're sanding.
- rush a finish and it becomes spotty
- rush sanding a blade, and you don't remove the deep scratches, which will show up after your final buff.

- rush your shave prep and you'll have tugging
- rush your stropping and you may end up with two strops...one short one hanging on the wall, and another short one hanging in your hand.

IMO, this hobby/craft is about slowing down, taking your time, and if you truly are a perfectionist....learning all of the small details that go into a nice prep and shave. You have your whole life to continue this "journey".

Start it off with a good pair of shoes and a full water bottle. ;)

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Originally Posted by Blix

You are really going waaay too fast here, you bought a professionally honed razor, and of course it will be tugging for your fist shave, because your technique sucks! Think less and shave more. The sharpest razor on earth would still tug when you are new. I'm new to this myself and my technique still sucks as well, but it's getting better by each shave, but I don't expect "perfect" shaves in a long time.
Now that you probably have dulled the razor, you should have it honed again. By someone good at it.

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Really well said, it probably was your technique all along, and you screwed up a perfectly honed blade...I'd do exactly what he say's, and send it out to a pro.
Don't mess around....

When You want to learn to hone, get yourself some old junky blades of the bay or the classifieds. Using a finisher, like a Swaty, or a Chinese 12k is a good way to get your technique down somewhat. I always recommend the Norton's to new honer's. There's a real nice set available, the 220/1k and 4/8k with a flattening stone.
Learn with those, or the Naniwa's before you move onto naturals, like coticules, which can leave you very frustrated. Leave the Coticules in Belgium for now...

Also, as Maxi said....This craft is all about slowing down, and taking it easy. it supposed to be zen like, very slow and relaxing....

Enjoy....

Right now, your honing should start here:

http://www.dailywisdom4u.com/images/Mailbox.jpg

1) What every one else said. It is probably you, not the razor

2) Contact thesuperiorshave guys if you think it is not shave ready. Most vendors want to have happy customers and if a non-shave ready razor did manage to make it through, they probably want to know.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll do my best to slow it down. To answer the arm hair question, it pops when I move the blade above the arm. Like I said, I'll give it a shave test next time I get a chance and send it out for professional honing if it doesn't seem sharp enough. I'll leave the honing for my vintage blades that are arriving since I don't intend to shave with them until I KNOW I can put a good edge on them. I have a Norton 220/1k and a 4k/8k on the way. I'm passing on the 12k for now and going with a .5 diamond pasted paddle strop to finish.

Thanks again for all the advice and reality checks. I can get a bit obsessive and I need to get slapped around a bit sometimes (verbally, that is.)

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Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

Like I said, I'll give it a shave test next time I get a chance and send it out for professional honing if it doesn't seem sharp enough.

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Get it sent for honing anyway, from the sounds of it, it will need it

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Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

Thanks again for all the advice and reality checks. I can get a bit obsessive and I need to get slapped around a bit sometimes (verbally, that is.)

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It's ok, we know were you live :mace: