First time honing. Vintage Genco.

Ordered a vintage Genco on the cheap from eBay. I'm determined to get it shave ready if it kills me (which it might). It had two small chips in the blade and was pretty dull. I spent about 45 minutes on a Norton 220 to get the chip out... then spent a solid two hours on the 1k. I have a sneaking suspicion that I've made an uneven bevel. It shaves arm hair fairly well on one side, and just barely after 20 passes on the other side. Any way to correct this? I also think the spine may be screwed up to the point where it isn't guiding the angle properly. Here's a pic... I know it's nowhere near detailed enough to give perfectly accurate advice, but maybe you honemeisters out there will have some advice.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3.../FirstHone.jpg

The spine on the side you showed looks fine to me. It does not appear that you have significantly worn the bevel so "guiding the angle" should still be just fine. Did you use pressure during this two hour marathon? Did you do straight strokes, X-strokes, circles, or your own newly invented stroke?

If the razor shaves arm hair good on one side, and only barely on the other side, you most likely have created a burr. Did you make a magic marker test on the blade? Do both sides touch the hone on the full lenght of the edge? Also, you sould tape the spine before you put a lot of honewear on that razor. Judging from the pics the honewear isn't significant yet.

I used mostly straight strokes. I did a few circles but didn't feel like my technique was good enough to use it often. Also did some x strokes here and there. I did use a fair amount of pressure early on and eventually used less. I'm not familiar with the magic marker test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

I used mostly straight strokes. I did a few circles but didn't feel like my technique was good enough to use it often. Also did some x strokes here and there. I did use a fair amount of pressure early on and eventually used less. I'm not familiar with the magic marker test.

---

Now, thats a big problem! Not because you don't know what the test is, but because this tells me that you didn't read too much about sharpening here. The wiki is you friend, and a lot of things will be much easier if you read first, and only start to hone after. Saves you a lot of time, frustration, and razorsteel, and gives success and happyness in return. I am fairly sure that you will have much less questions if you learn the basics that are written in the wiki, and your learning curve will be shorter too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

The spine on the side you showed looks fine to me. It does not appear that you have significantly worn the bevel so "guiding the angle" should still be just fine. Did you use pressure during this two hour marathon? Did you do straight strokes, X-strokes, circles, or your own newly invented stroke?

---

+1 And what does the other side look like?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

I used mostly straight strokes. I did a few circles but didn't feel like my technique was good enough to use it often. Also did some x strokes here and there. I did use a fair amount of pressure early on and eventually used less. I'm not familiar with the magic marker test.

---

:banghead::cen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jeness

Now, thats a big problem! Not because you don't know what the test is, but because this tells me that you didn't read too much about sharpening here. The wiki is you friend, and a lot of things will be much easier if you read first, and only start to hone after. Saves you a lot of time, frustration, and razorsteel, and gives success and happyness in return. I am fairly sure that you will have much less questions if you learn the basics that are written in the wiki, and your learning curve will be shorter too.

---

Agreed! Please listen to people here! They will help you if you let them. You seem to want to shoot your foot then complain about it. :nono: Change your method by listening first doing second!!! :nono:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

Agreed! Please listen to people here! They will help you if you let them. You seem to want to shoot your foot then complain about it. :nono: Change your method by listening first doing second!!! :nono:

---

First of all, I'm not complaining, I'm asking for advice. Second of all, I've done enough reading and YouTube watching on honing to make my head explode. Missing reading about a technique doesn't mean I haven't read anything or I'm not listening to people.

Third of all, your little :banghead: and :cen icons aren't much help to me. I don't know if that means you think I shouldn't use pressure, or that I shouldn't use certain strokes when honing, or that I should know about the magic marker test. I thought this was a place to help those new to the world of straight razors, not to insult them with little icons for not knowing everything right off the bat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

First of all, I'm not complaining, I'm asking for advice. Second of all, I've done enough reading and YouTube watching on honing to make my head explode. Missing reading about a technique doesn't mean I haven't read anything or I'm not listening to people.

Third of all, your little :banghead: and :cen icons aren't much help to me. I don't know if that means you think I shouldn't use pressure, or that I shouldn't use certain strokes when honing, or that I should know about the magic marker test. I thought this was a place to help those new to the world of straight razors, not to insult them with little icons for not knowing everything right off the bat.

---

We are here to help, this is the reason of this forum. But a lot of knowledge is already in the wiki, which answers a lot of questions. If you are familiar with the various tests, honing strokes etc., than you will find a lot of answers before you could even ask. And, most importantly, if you know the basics, than it will be easier for you to ask more specific questions, which we can understand better, so we can give a better answer. If your head hurts from all the videos and the wiki, than take a brake, and start all over a few times, and only after it start to hone.

Don't rush, it will only make things worse. Straight shaving is not a race, take it easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MisterSensitive

First of all, I'm not complaining, I'm asking for advice. Second of all, I've done enough reading and YouTube watching on honing to make my head explode. Missing reading about a technique doesn't mean I haven't read anything or I'm not listening to people.

Third of all, your little :banghead: and :cen icons aren't much help to me. I don't know if that means you think I shouldn't use pressure, or that I shouldn't use certain strokes when honing, or that I should know about the magic marker test. I thought this was a place to help those new to the world of straight razors, not to insult them with little icons for not knowing everything right off the bat.

---

My point and frustration is that others have suggested you send a razor off to be honed properly so you have something to gauge off of. It seems as if you want to keep honing away and not listen. I only meant to convey your need to slow down. You will not become Jackie Chan with one martial art class.
You have nothing to base as a point of reference except one trashed razor and now slamming away for two hours on a second. Slow down. Technique is everything. I do not claim to know 1/10 of the Honemeister's here but I have a long background with knives which (pun intended), may give me an edge. Start by learning to shave, then slowly learn to hone. Otherwise you won't be able to see what a good edge really is.
(don't hate the icon's, they are fun)

Oh and again, what does the other side of the blade look like?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

My point and frustration is that others have suggested you send a razor off to be honed properly so you have something to gauge off of. It seems as if you want to keep honing away and not listen. I only meant to convey your need to slow down. You will not become Jackie Chan with one martial art class.
You have nothing to base as a point of reference except one trashed razor and now slamming away for two hours on a second. Slow down. Technique is everything. I do not claim to know 1/10 of the Honemeister's here but I have a long background with knives which (pun intended), may give me an edge. Start by learning to shave, then slowly learn to hone. Otherwise you won't be able to see what a good edge really is.
(don't hate the icon's, they are fun)

Oh and again, what does the other side of the blade look like?

---

I'm sending the razor I shave with off to be honed by Lynn so I can get a good idea of what a sharp razor looks and shaves like. I'm practicing honing on a cheapo eBay razor that I don't really have too much invested in. I've read a great deal about razor honing from reading and watching videos and felt it was OK to give it a shot. I can say I've already learned a lot from the little honing that I've done, so I don't see it as a problem or "moving too fast". I didn't have high expectations from my first honing experience, in fact, I was sure I'd make mistakes. But making those kinds of mistakes is something I've found to work for me in terms of learning a new skill. The experience was enjoyable and educational, not frustrating or discouraging. If anything, it has given me first hand experience of how important careful technique is while honing. I can read about that until I'm blue in the face, but I won't FULLY understand it unless I experience it. On the other hand I can understand other people's frustration if they see me jumping into something I may not be ready for. Especially if I'm asking basic questions that can be answered by reading up. So I get where you're coming from.

In the meantime, I shall be visiting the Wiki regularly.
:medvl::idea::popcorn::rock::aargh:

Good..
Now where are the other pics of the Genco. I have great shaves off mine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

Good..
Now where are the other pics of the Genco. I have great shaves off mine.

---

I'll be posting them tonight.

Looking at the pic

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g.../FirstHone.jpg


This spot of the heel attracts my attention it looks as though the honing is starting to ride into the Stabilizer... Understand pics are about useless but every now and then we can see something... I wonder at the lack of wear on the spine and must assume that you are using a layer of tape..

The simple fact of honing is that everything comes down to the Bevel until you have set the bevel from the Toe to the Heel so that it is sharper then any knife you have ever touched then you haven't started yet... The work really is in the bevel set in fact I state it as 90% of honing is the bevel, 9% is sharpening, and 1% is in the finish... That 1% seems to be what we argue about most and spend the most money on too :)

Get the bevel set, you also might have to fix that heel if it gets worse...

The heel definitely is bent off to one side. I have not been using tape. There is some hone wear on the blade, but it isn't easily visible in this photo. I'll try to take some better pics tonight.

Here are more photos... showing both sides. Again, not great quality, but at least it's something.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...rsthone025.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...rsthone026.jpg

Looks like you chose a pretty razor to learn to hone on.
Not a bad one though. In the search for an edge I have found the Genco razors to be smooth and one of the easier razors to hone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

Looks like you chose a pretty razor to learn to hone on.
Not a bad one though. In the search for an edge I have found the Genco razors to be smooth and one of the easier razors to hone.

---

+1
It is a nice little razor. It could become the best
shaver in your shave den with some care.

Did I miss a post that mentions the hone you
used or wish to use after the 1K hone?

One things to search for in the WiKi and FAQ
is the pyramid method. As methods go it
is as much a formula as you might find and
it can do a fine job.

I'm liking the way this razor looks. I just wish I had more gear to give it a good polish. I'd also love to replace the scales with something fancy, but I don't know how (again... or have the gear) to remove and replace pins. I'm not really looking to learn that at the moment anyway. I'm learning how to shave and hone at the same time... and it's a bit of an information overload.

An update on my honing of this razor... I got some new info from the Wiki. I took it back to a 1k and stuck with X-strokes, then did a few back and forth between 4k and 8k (about 15 on the 4k, then 30 or so on the 8k). Then I stropped on a paddle strop with .5 micron diamond paste, moved on to CrOx on balsa wood, then stropped on a plain strop. It managed to pass the HHT, though it took a few tries. It shaves arm hair fantastically, and when hovering the blade over my arm, it catches on to hair very well. I'm thinking of giving it a shave test tonight or tomorrow morning. As far as I know... it SEEMS shave ready. However I don't know much except for how the pre-honed razor I purchased a couple weeks ago works. I have my fingers crossed.

BTW: All hones I used are Nortons. They were freshly lapped. Sandpaper is a pain in the ass, so I'm probably going to end up springing for a DMT D8C to lap my stones.

well, if you ever get rid of those scales for something fancy...that would solve the problem with my genco. and I may be new at this, but I can even replace your pins.
As for why your razor isnt honing even i can not be of much help....did you lap your stones. sorry if they asked you already...
*edit*
never mind that lapping part. i see you said that they were freshly lapped

The HHT "test" doesn't say that much really, shave with it, that's the only real test.

I would recommend that after you get this razor professionally honed, that you compare the newly honed edge at the stabilizer with the photo of the original edge at the stabilizer. The honemeister may well choose to reshape the stabilizer bar to accomodate the new bevel set.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrsell63

I would recommend that after you get this razor professionally honed, that you compare the newly honed edge at the stabilizer with the photo of the original edge at the stabilizer. The honemeister may well choose to reshape the stabilizer bar to accomodate the new bevel set.

---

Reshape the stabilizer bar? Who? What? I haven't read about that anywhere. Is it in the wiki? I wasn't really planning on getting this razor professionally honed. I was going to send my new Dovo Best Quality. Maybe I should send this one instead...

Good to hear that you are determined to hone the razor. Every razor, well a good bunch of them is different. When first starting to put a newly acquired razor to the hones blacken the bevel with a marker (Sharpies work good) and give it ~ 10 strokes on the hone. Look at the bevel to see if the marker is complete removed. This will tell you if the razor is warped, the bevel is in need of repair or if everything is fine. Rather hard to tell from you pic but it looks like the bevel is thicker in the middle of the blade than on either end and that the hone wear on the spine is shiner in the center than the ends. If this is true than the other side should be the opposite, wider bevel on the ends than the middle. This would signify that the blade has a slight warp. To home a warped blade lift the toe off the hone slighgtly (1/32) and draw the blade down the hone and off the side in one motion. When the center of the blade reaches the side of the hone lay the blade down (center of the blade and toe on the hone) and finish the stroke. Same for the other side and the rest of your honing. Count laps only to balance the metal removed from each side of the blade and not as a gauge of completeness. On really dull blades I use a timer. I already know how to count and I don't need any practice counting to a billion. As a general rule, use a moderate pressure onthe hones under 4k if you are using courser hones. Mild pressure on the 4k and very light pressure over 4k. Good luck.

That's a nice Genco. I have one that's very similar - same model, same scales, just with a square point instead of round. It belonged to my great Grandfather, and I only recently decided that I would hone it up.

The only thing I will add is that I found the Genco steel to be very hard, especially compared to my German and English blades. It was frustrating at first, as it took awhile to set a bevel properly, so my advice would be to give it a few extra strokes at all the honing stages - bevel setting, sharpening, polishing and finishing. Once I got a good shave off the 8k I got her dialled in with my finisher and she's a fine shaver now.

Have patience, it will come along.