Another Poor Slobs Honeing Question

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08-20-2006, 04:17 PM
Bigseem

Another Poor Slobs Honeing Question

Hello All. Im fairly new to SE shaves, about three or four months. I been sharpening knives and exactos on oilstones to very acceptable levels for years, so I thought I would have no probs with razors. Ha!

Anyway, while I can get them shavable, I was not happy yet. I seem to have better luck with Stainless, Damascuss than with carbon, but that may be another story. I ordered and just recieved my new 1k, 4k, 8k Nortons and a 10k Ice Bear to use only for Razors.

Long and short is I can't seem to get the edges up to even my previous level, so I reviewed Pyramid info and hone videos here yesterday. I am now Kornfused. The video I saw showed the edge being trailed on the hone rather than leading as I have always done. A decriptive analogy would be that my stroke has been similar to attempting to shave a slice of the hone off, but the video stroke I saw was more similar to icing a cake. Does this not kill the fin? Another tell for your consideration is that at least on one razor, a DD wonderedge, I have a nice smile on one side, and a flat or marginal frown on the other.

Any help would be appreciated, as I have just dropped a couple hundered on waterstones, and would hate to have them wind up in the closet.
08-20-2006, 04:35 PM
mparker762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigseem

Hello All. Im fairly new to SE shaves, about three or four months. I been sharpening knives and exactos on oilstones to very acceptable levels for years, so I thought I would have no probs with razors. Ha!

yeah, razors are a whole nother level of sharp... Your frustration isn't unusual, it takes a little while and some practice to be comfortable with the specific techniques needed to sharpen razors to the level of keenness needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigseem

I seem to have better luck with Stainless, Damascuss than with carbon

Sounds like you may be using too much pressure. Stainless and Damascus don't mind some pressure because they're so hard, but carbon blades don't respond well to pressure at all (there are some exceptions, but that's the general rule). It's ok when you're first trying to establish the bevel on a dull razor, but you must ease off the pressure once the bevel is basically there so you're just using the weight of the razor on the hone.

You are supposed to hone on stones with the edge leading, but on strops with the edge trailing, including pasted strops.

As for the wonderedge, what you are seeing can be caused by using different levels of pressure on each side, a hone out of true, or it can be caused by a warped blade. Set the razor flat on a piece of glass and see if either the spine or the edge bows away from the glass; check each side of the razor to see if the behavior is asymmetrical. If it look ok, then you might want to true your hone, and if it still happens then work on your technique. (I listed these steps are in order of ease, not of likelihood)
08-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Bigseem

Thanks mparker762. The Blade does look ok, so I do think it is uneven pressureon my part. The stones are new, but I have lapped them anyway. Good point about the harder steels. While I know they are harder, I didn't consider the pressure tolerances being different. I take some more metel off today and see how it goes.
08-20-2006, 07:03 PM
coully

Honing help....

hey there....in the words of someone else...i can feel your pain..i know how frustrating it is when you spend your dosh on the right equipment and you cant seem to get it to go for you.

Well as a relative beginner on the whole honing game...( and I dont know how to sharpen a knife), the pressure issue is what gets me everytime, but as you have sharpening experience Im sure you will get it sorted in no time at all.

I hold the hone in my hand so as to get a feel for pressure and so far it has served me well as the first time i did it I was rather heavy handed, seeing as I knew relatively nothing other than what I have read. Once I had been coming here and skype reared its head I have recieved a few tutorials online and on camera and it has helped me no end.

So if all else fails post a' help 'and one or two of the members will help you out, if I knew more I could help you better but im as new if not newer at the sharpening game than you but I will help you in anyway I can.

good luck and go for it...simon:)
08-20-2006, 07:33 PM
mparker762

It's not unusual for new stones to need lapping. My Norton 4k/8k needed lapping on both sides before it would get a razor sharp - I spent many hours in honing hell before I discovered this.
08-20-2006, 07:53 PM
Kees

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigseem

I been sharpening knives and exactos on oilstones to very acceptable levels for years, so I thought I would have no probs with razors.

Just wondered: what is an exacto?
08-20-2006, 08:00 PM
Kees

Don't you use too many stones? If you have a good bevel you may only need an 8k & a 10k, or just an 8k and a pasted strop. Only very blunt razors will need a 1k and a 4k.
08-20-2006, 09:03 PM
Joe Chandler

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Just wondered: what is an exacto?

Those hobby knives with replaceable blades. You can get damn near any blade for any purpose (gouges, very pointy, round, etc.) in an X-acto.
08-20-2006, 09:58 PM
Bigseem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Don't you use too many stones? If you have a good bevel you may only need an 8k & a 10k, or just an 8k and a pasted strop. Only very blunt razors will need a 1k and a 4k.

Ya, I won't use 1k much (I hope), but the 4k I dunno. I know I won't use pasted strops or paddles unless I find there is no alternative. But basically, I had no experience with Norton waterstones, and didn't really know what I woul;d ultimately need with various garage-sale razors finds. I hate to find I don't have the right tool for the job. What if I don't have a good bevel? I got the Ice Bear 10 k bacause I have had one similar in the past, and found it to be a supurb finisher...but I did'nt know if there was enough difference between it and the norton 8k. After very limited use, though, I think there is. Time will tell.

The blades I attacked today, before use of the 10k and strop, are grabbing hairs on the back of my hand, so Im getting close.
08-20-2006, 10:42 PM
Kees

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigseem

Im fairly new to SE shaves, about three or four months. I been sharpening knives and exactos on oilstones to very acceptable levels for years, so I thought I would have no probs with razors. Ha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Just wondered: what is an exacto?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Those hobby knives with replaceable blades. You can get damn near any blade for any purpose (gouges, very pointy, round, etc.) in an X-acto.

Bigseem: Why do you sharpen X-actos if they are replaceable?
08-20-2006, 10:45 PM
Kees

I been sharpening knives and exactos on oilstones to very acceptable levels for years, so I thought I would have no probs with razors. Ha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Those hobby knives with replaceable blades. You can get damn near any blade for any purpose (gouges, very pointy, round, etc.) in an X-acto.

Bigseem: Why would you hone X-actos if they are dispoable?
08-20-2006, 10:52 PM
mparker762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigseem

The blades I attacked today, before use of the 10k and strop, are grabbing hairs on the back of my hand, so Im getting close.

If it's grabbing them without the blade having to touch the skin, then you are indeed getting close. Go to the 10k and let the weight of the razor do the work. And watch out for overhoning, it's easy to overshoot and wind up with a delicate edge that won't survive a shave.
08-21-2006, 01:18 AM
Bigseem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Bigseem: Why do you sharpen X-actos if they are replaceable?

Cause it only takes about 20 seconds, and a single blade will last years if well kept. Why replace when you don't have to?
08-21-2006, 01:27 AM
Bigseem

Quote:

Originally Posted by mparker762

If it's grabbing them without the blade having to touch the skin, then you are indeed getting close.

Ya, I finally got there. Grabbing just off the skin. Ill try the shave test in the morning.

I did have a crap razor I dug up and worked on today...then made Momma clean up the hairline on my neck. While not my chin, it worked well, so I am makeing progress. Those suggestions were great, and it seems pressure was the key.:)
08-21-2006, 01:44 AM
mparker762

It should do better than grab -- a shave-ready razor should cut the hairs with very little sensation at all. If it grabs on your arm, it will almost certainly pull on your chin. By the time it's grabbing however, your bevel is likely ok, it just needs polishing on the higher grits.

That said, the real test of "shave-readiness" is your face, so go ahead and give it a try. Just don't be surprised or disappointed if it's not that pleasant. An important part of learning to hone a razor is learning the correlation between the the various tests and actual shaving quality on *your* face.