My Norton saga continues...

Well, after a couple of weeks and trying several different strategies, I'm still getting a gritty feeling on the 8k side of my Norton. I think I may have figured out the problem, though.

So question first, then background: Does the 8k side of your Norton have tiny pits in it?

I can see small pits in the surface of my hone when I hold the 8k side under my desk lamp and turn it so that the surface runs almost perpendicular to the light. That gives me a very strong sidelight, which exaggerates shadows. If I look very closely the pits seem to have white at the bottom of them.

The 8k side of my stone has felt gritty ever since I bought it. I've lapped it several times with 400 and 800 grit 3M sandpaper. It used to be really bad no matter what I did. After several lappings it now allows me to do one stroke in each direction without feeling gritty. Then on the second stroke the edge starts to catch, sometimes really badly. If I douse the stone with water again and rub my hand over it, I can get another smooth stroke in before the cycle repeats.

I'm thinking that the pits might be from air pockets in the hone or something, and that as long as they're full of water they're OK. If it's not normal to have these, maybe I can lap them out or get my stone replaced. Somehow I think lapping may remove some of them but open up more elsewhere on the stone.

Thanks for any help you can offer,
Josh

I'm not an expert with a Norton but that doesn't seem normal. I would relap with wet/dry sandpaper and failing that send it back.

I used an 800 grit substandard paper and got bad results myself. When I used high quality 1000 grit automotive wet/dry paper I got a very nice surface on my 8k and 4k sides.

X

You have been at this for a long time and tried to get it worked out. Not every batch of hones comes out of the kiln perfect. It is time for you to cantact Norton's customer service and ask for a replacement hone.

I had similar problems so I got intouch with Norton / saint gobain and they decided to send me a new one, however I got it yesterday and guess what . they sent me the wrong stone!!!!

I am now the owner of 2 x 220/1000 combinations and an almost useless 4000/8000 combination.
They were easy to deal with and i feel a rant coming on today with the phonecall im gonna make, I need to kick some butt...hard, I sent pictures, invoices, emails, and product tags etc, and they still sent me the wrong stone...

did you see the thread i started a few months ago....then you will see the pictures I took..

regards,simon

Well, I've contacted Norton to see if they'd be able to give me a replacement stone. Over lunch I bought a few sheets of Norton 1200 wet-dry sandpaper, so I'll give that a try this evening. I haven't tried to sand out these pits yet; the sanding was aimed at getting out scratches that I put on the surface by lapping with my Japanese slipstones...

I'll report back on how it goes.

An hour of lapping with the 1200-grit Norton sandpaper didn't do any good. My suspicion was correct: some of the pits seemed to come out, but others appeared, so I didn't make any progress.

I looked more closely at the pits and it almost looked like flakes of the stone were coming off.

Thinking that maybe the 1200-grit wasn't removing enough of the stone's surface, I went to a 220-grit paper for a while. No progress. I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

I called Norton this morning and they're sending me another stone (hopefully it'll be the right one). They were great to work with, though.

One other observation: The Norton 1200-grit sandpaper was great. It seems like it's more aggressive than the 800-grit 3M Imperial I'd been using. But it left a much smoother finish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshearl

An hour of lapping with the 1200-grit Norton sandpaper didn't do any good. My suspicion was correct: some of the pits seemed to come out, but others appeared, so I didn't make any progress.

I looked more closely at the pits and it almost looked like flakes of the stone were coming off.

Thinking that maybe the 1200-grit wasn't removing enough of the stone's surface, I went to a 220-grit paper for a while. No progress. I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

I called Norton this morning and they're sending me another stone (hopefully it'll be the right one). They were great to work with, though.

One other observation: The Norton 1200-grit sandpaper was great. It seems like it's more aggressive than the 800-grit 3M Imperial I'd been using. But it left a much smoother finish.

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well im glad to hear you have resolved the problem, I had the same situation, did you ever read my posting and see my pics I put up.
I did call them back and the guy straight out admitted his mistake and said to keep the stone I had recieved, cool, but i still have to wait for the 4/8k combination, I hope you have the same success as I have had as it really knocks the confidence out of you.
Good luck and hope you get sorted out.

regards,simon

Thanks to everyone for their help on my issues with my Norton. I talked to customer service, and they sent me a new stone.

The new one lapped up much more easily than the last one and it's silky smooth on the 8K side. I didn't really do anything different this time, so it must have been a bad hone.

The folks at Saint-Gobain were great--they shipped the replacement as soon as I explained the problem. I even kept the original until the new one arrived so I could use the 4K side.

I'm still learning to use the Norton. Right now I'm getting better results off my inexpensive Japanese slip stones, but I'm sure I'll get it. I've even gotten a couple of razors to pass the HHT!

Thanks again,
Josh

I only use the Norton for reestablishing the bevel on a BADLY deteriorated edge and for the final 2 to 3 1-5s before moving on to the coticule. For everything in between, I use the JP slips. I love these babies.

I've found the longer I'm doing this the less I'm using the norton. Razors tend to get the norton treatment when they first arrive then sent to something simpler after that. If it's more than a barber stone or paddle can easily handle then the razor goes to either the 8k Shapton or the hard arkansas stone, both of which need only a splash of water beforehand and a quick blot with a towel afterwards.

I have to ask what is "JP slips?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I only use the Norton for reestablishing the bevel on a BADLY deteriorated edge and for the final 2 to 3 1-5s before moving on to the coticule. For everything in between, I use the JP slips. I love these babies.

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Japanese slip stones.. I used to say "Japs" but someoene got on my case for being insulting to Japanese people but "japanese slip stoneS" is just too damn long lol.

Well, my starter grit for a brand new razor, or a ebay find would be 1000-1500 grit sandpaper stuck on a flat surface with doublestick tape. After that is Norton combo, and in less than 20 minutes, the razor is shaving sharp.

Nenad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshearl

Thanks to everyone for their help on my issues with my Norton. I talked to customer service, and they sent me a new stone.

The new one lapped up much more easily than the last one and it's silky smooth on the 8K side. I didn't really do anything different this time, so it must have been a bad hone.

The folks at Saint-Gobain were great--they shipped the replacement as soon as I explained the problem. I even kept the original until the new one arrived so I could use the 4K side.

I'm still learning to use the Norton. Right now I'm getting better results off my inexpensive Japanese slip stones, but I'm sure I'll get it. I've even gotten a couple of razors to pass the HHT!

Thanks again,
Josh

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Does your new stone still have tiny pits in it, but come out smooth after you lap it? I just recieved my stone about an hour ago. I gave it a good soak while I jumped in the shower and shaved. And then I started sanding with Norton 600grit and 3M 800grit. I have all kind of tiny pits on my 8k side, but it feels smooth.

Billy,

Yes, my new stone does have pits similar to the defective one. I lapped it on 220 grit and 1200-grit paper, and it feels silky. But when I hold it up to strong sidelighting, I can still see tiny pits with white at the bottom.

For some reason, on the old stone the edge caught on those pits, but it doesn't on this one. I could tell that it was the pits that were causing the problem because I'd feel the blade catch, then I'd push it gently and it would break free. If I then let the stone dry I could see a smudge of metal exactly where the blade caught, and there was always a pit right there.

My blade was hitting what felt like 10 to 20 pieces of grit on every stroke with that stone.

But the new one feels smooth. My advice to anyone having this problem is not to spend huge amounts of time lapping the stone. Make sure it's flat with the pencil mark method, but if you feel grit on the 8000K side of the stone you may not be able to lap it away.

The other thing I did with this one that I didn't do as well on my old stone is rounding the edges off. They come with a sharp angle on them; I polished mine until it was a gentle curve but curling the sandpaper in my hand and rubbing the edge. It seems like the corner of the hone can have irregularities that feel like grit on the blade.

Good luck,
Josh

Hi Guys... errmm I do not think there should be visable pits in an
8K stone..I just got my first Norton stones today (have been using
Ice Bear hones, Japanese)..I compared the Nortons to the Ice
Bears side to side same grit...THe Ice Bears seem a leeeeetle nicer.
So the Nortons are going out to my shop to sharpen chisels..
If yours is a new stone I would contact the seller, if it is a used stone
then you might try smoothing it with a smoothing stone.
I have been REALLY happy with Japanese made stones. THe Ice Bears
and a couple of Suehiro stones make up my razor sharpening set (am up
to 5 hones now guys..you can call me 5 hone jim)...And a
suggestion 8K might not give you quite the polish you might want.. I would
suggest a 10K for shaving..8K is ok for tools, but not your FACE !..

Best to you....it should work out soon

jim holding his own in Gold Bar

Jim,

Great to hear from you again. Hope you are feeling better and hang around here for a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim in gold bar

Hi Guys... errmm I do not think there should be visable pits in an
8K stone..I just got my first Norton stones today (have been using
Ice Bear hones, Japanese)..I compared the Nortons to the Ice
Bears side to side same grit...THe Ice Bears seem a leeeeetle nicer.
So the Nortons are going out to my shop to sharpen chisels..
If yours is a new stone I would contact the seller, if it is a used stone
then you might try smoothing it with a smoothing stone.
I have been REALLY happy with Japanese made stones. THe Ice Bears
and a couple of Suehiro stones make up my razor sharpening set (am up
to 5 hones now guys..you can call me 5 hone jim)...And a
suggestion 8K might not give you quite the polish you might want.. I would
suggest a 10K for shaving..8K is ok for tools, but not your FACE !..

Best to you....it should work out soon

jim holding his own in Gold Bar

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Jim,

In theory I agree that pitting on the stone's surface seems like a bad thing. But it really doesn't seem to affect anything (on my new stone, at least).

The only comparison I've been able to make is between my two Nortons, and both of them have the pits. They're invisible unless you look at the stone with a strong, undiffused sidelighting. I have a little bare-bulb halogen desk lamp that I use, and that's what led me to notice the pits in the first place.

I'm not sure if this is normal, but no one else seems to have reported anything similar. I do know that I spent over an hour lapping my old stone and the pits were still there.

Anybody else want to try to find a strong light source to check their stone?

Thanks,
Josh