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Once I was told that it's never necessary to tape the spine when finishing or touching up a razor on a pasted balsa strop, but lately I have been thinking about this, and have started to question this statement.
When a razor is honed with tape the angle of the bevel will be slightly different than without, wouldn't this also affect the result when using a balsa strop?
I leave the tape on when I finish on my balsa crox paddle strop, then take it off to strop on the leather. But again that's just me and how I have always done it :)
The best yes keep tape on.
i doubt if you do without tape(specially blade honed just one layer of tape) will hurt your blade.
Balsa will cover 1 layer tape thickness by bending(not sure correct word).
hope this helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by thewatermark
I have read that tape should not be needed on a hanging strop, because they have give, bit balsa does not, so I would think tape would be needed. On the super rare occasions that I hone with tape and use a pasted strop (I rarely do either, let alone both), I keep the tape on during the stropping anyway.
I had been wondering this same thing. Thanks for the answers.
Thanks gyus, I guess I sums up to what I expected: It will probably not be a problem to strop on balsa w/o tape, but to be sure, keep it on :)
My philosophy is "if ever, than always", when it comes to tape. balsa is a flat honing method. Hanging strops don't count.
+1, Alan. Honing=tape, leather/linen stropping=no tape. That also means tape for balsa touch ups as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFDavis11
I leave the tape on for hard, inflexible surfaces.
will you call Balsa soft and flexible Randy?
To me it has been always soft?
i never knew what is a Balsa . First time i remember Kelly brought the balsa and it seemed very soft peace of wood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
I would say that, for a wood, balsa is on the soft side, but I my experience, it does not deform while stropping. To me, balsa is soft much like a (insert razor shaped object) is soft; only when compared to things made of the same material.
But compare to metal is hard side?
Plus it has a good junk of chro2?Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I agree with Dylan. Balsa is soft like a nerf razor. Soft and yielding. Tape is thin, thin like ice. Taken together, these two points lead us to conclude that taping ice with nerf razors thins balsa.
But on a more serious note, the best thing to do to resolve this debate is to try it with and without tape, and check under a microscope whether a second bevel appears or not. I think.
James.
I agree that balsa is soft compared to steel. I just did a quick press-test with a few razors. To preface, I usually don't use much pressure at all while stropping. With my normal stropping pressure, the balsa does not deform, at least not that I am able to see. With pressure, a full hollow blade will deform much more than balsa. A heavier grind will cause the balsa to deform, but it takes much more pressure than I would use to strop.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
I guess I assumed that we were talking about stropping with the normal, light pressure.
James's microscope suggestion is a good one, but I don't have a microscope to see what is being abraded.
if you have honed blade with 1 layer of tape using Balsa with chro2 and strop that blade without tape your edge will be just fine.
i have done it many many times.
never had any issues.
Dylan why you are talking about pressure?
Strop as you usually do.
But before to do so you have to hone the blade with 1 layer of tape and then take tape off and strop balsa strop with chro2 on it.
After that compare them to another blade which will be honed with tape and leave the tape on and then strop on blase.
After all you could tell something about your test result.
As i mention i have done this many years ago.
Good luck to you on your testing.
James i think we are totally in different pages.
we are not talking about creating secondary bevel etc.
if you see what OP asks that will be clear to you .
If I strop as I usually do, then the balsa does not deform, so I really don't think the edge is getting any paste. I used the pressure to see what it would take to get the balsa to deform so the edge would get on the paste.
I can't really feel the difference between paste and not, so that wouldn't help me.
Are you already honed blade with tape and testing or you just testing regular blade and don't get any effect?
what you are trying to see looking the edge? is your bevel touches balsa and chro2? or it is just on the air?
Can you post your Balsa strop with chro2 pictures too?
thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
You don't need to use pressure to get the benefits of chrome-on-balsa. As long as the paste is applied correctly and the razor is stropped correctly, the edge is getting paste; in the end your face will tell you as much. If you can't tell the difference something is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I got a razor I'm going to hone tomorrow, I will hone it with tape, and finish on pasted balsa. I'll try to do one side with tape and the other without, and see if there's any visual difference in the microscope. I only have a 60 - 100 X mini microscope, but it should be enough to see the results.
That sounds right to me. But:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Most people who sharpen with tape on the spine, strop (on leather) without tape. So they think that the strop will "wrap around" the slightly mis-angled bevel.
The balsa is softer than a stone, and less flexible than leather -- it fits somewhere in between. It might be soft enough to "wrap around" the slightly-wrong-angled bevel in the same way a leather strop would.
An ideal question for a controlled experiment . . .
Charles
I would try a microscope and find out especially those of you that have the ones that you can capture pics for here....
That would be interesting to see...
My brain is telling me we are talking about 1/2 of 1 degree of angle change on a surface that is measured in fractions of microns so I don't see how it could make a huge difference... But I don't use Balsa so I am only guessing...
Hello Sham, when using balsa I leave the tape on. I do not think Balsa wood has enough "give/softness" to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
So I tried to do some experimenting today, I honed a Hellberg wedge on Naniwas 1-3-8-12K with one layer of electrical tape.
I then gave it 15 laps on a balsa strop pasted with CrOx, one side with tape, the other without, then I checked the edge in my pocket microscope at 60 & 100 X and to me it looked like the side without tape didn't make full contact with the CrOx, it was not quite as smooth as the taped side, so I put tape on it again and gave the prvious untaped side 15 new laps, this time the edge looked just as smooth on both sides.
Since this was a single experiment I will by no means claim that this is the correct answer, so if someone wants to do some more tests and maybe post some pics from a USB microscope it would be very welcome :)
would you mind posting your Balsa strop pics?
wow 15 laps chro2 made edge smooth?
i would love to see that balsa strop.
thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Sounds like I'm on thin ice here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
Okay, not smooth as in SMOOTH, but there was some improvement from the 12K (at least it looked like it was)
When I finish on CrOx I usaually do ~30-35 laps before I do 75/50 Linen/leather, that's what I was told when I started honing, should it be more? If so how much is recommended?
I'm greatful for anything that can help me improve, and I'll gladly take it back to the balsa to double check if you give me a more correct number of laps.
Sham,Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
I regularly use my balsa strop w/ chrome to do touch ups and to finish my honing progression. 10-12 laps is all I ever use, and not only are my edges noticeably smooth they do seem to get sharper, too. I prefer it to diamond.
FYI - I have sensitive skin, so I do notice subtle differences with the edge.
Take care,
Ryan
Ryan
i don't use chro2 but have used . I know how strong chro2 will act.
chro 2 is very weak compound. it basically doesn't have sharpening power.
It will sharpen the blade but takes a lot more laps .
if you guys talking about bevel gets shiny that i will accept but not the edge.
Edge to get smooth it will take a lot more laps then 10-12 laps.
Anyway I was replying to this thread because of 1 layer tape.
i have never notes differences between 1 layer tape and stropping compare to same blade without tape.
No one did post their chro2 balsa strop to see how much chro2 they are using.
I guess i need to stop in here .
thank you all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan82
I can't speak from your experience, or anybody elses for that matter, I can only report my own findings from nearly 3 years of using my balsa strop. And I certainly have no motivation to deceive the wetshaving community about the powers of chrome ox. And it's not a placebo effect either. It does work very well for me, gives the edge a "crisp" feel. I have experimented shaving with and without, and I can definitely feel the difference. You can see shades of grey mixed in with the green, so metal is being removed. I've never had to apply a second coat yet either.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
I don't know the "why's", I just know that it "is"...
Stay well,
Ryan
I guess that is what I really see in the microscope, the bevel being polished, and to me it looked like the side without tape didn't get fully in contact with the CrOx.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
I can't really tell if there's any difference to the edge finishing on CrOx or not since I have finished every razor I have honed on the Naniwas on CrOx, ever since I was told it would make a smoother finish to the edge.
And for the pics, here's mine:
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...Misc/bilde.jpg
Yes you will see basically half of the bevel didn't get polished but half toward to the edge will make contact and gets polished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
This is the part you need to be polished.(this is the purpose of using chro2)
Try it out and see above statement correct or not on the without tape site.
by the way very nice Junk of chro2 on your balsa strop.
Thank you for posting pics.