New to honing, looking on advice on how to procede

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08-23-2011, 12:50 AM
dps

New to honing, looking on advice on how to procede

I have a TI AOS razor, never honed, so I wanted to get it shave ready( I am comparing to a shave ready DOVO bought from thesuperiorshave).

Anyway, I've got a naniwa 3000/8000 and I followed this guide exactly:
Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki

So I did 1 full pyramid then I tried HHT, didn't pass, so I repeated again, and still no luck. Overall I honed for about 1 hour, and I was getting nowhere, so I stopped.

Right now:
If I pass the razor over my nail TNT, i'll cut a little so it seems the bevel is set, but if I touch the blade TPT it feels like a sharp knife, very different from the DOVO.

Here are some pics the best I could
Pictures

Can anyone give me some direction on what to do?
I can't seem to get the blade sharp enough. Please be detailed, like go to 3000 and do 20 circles then do TNT etc.
08-23-2011, 01:25 AM
nun2sharp

Everytime you drag the edge across your thumbnail (TNT) you dull the edge. The TNT is to tell you wether or not there are chips in the blade. Lets start with this and see where we go from there. BTW TI steel can be rather difficult at times, also it is not usually recommended to learn honing on a newer razor.
08-23-2011, 01:44 AM
roughkype

Hi dps,

It's hard to diagnose from your pictures, but it really sounds like the bevel is NOT set. I have not honed a TI but I hear they have very hard steel, which will slow down your progress. 3k is probably not aggressive enough to set a bevel, and 8k is fine enough for shaving if you're a reasonably accomplished honer.

Try the Magic Marker Test (MMT): draw a line along your bevel with a magic marker, do a few strokes on the hone, and see if your line is erased by the honing. If any areas remain dark, they are not contacting the hone. This could indicate a warped blade, which is an issue you don't want to fight as a learning project. It could also indicate a frown, which would be very unusual in a new razor.

It looks like you're honing the heel a little more than the toe, which means your elbow is running a little low on your honing stroke. Try to keep your elbow and forearm parallel with the hone and/or support the blade with your ring or pinky finger under the tang to keep pressure even on the toe. This is a habit I have to stay very aware of myself.

Have you flattened your hones? If not, you may not be getting blade-to-hone contact during the whole stroke, which could enormously increase your honing time.

Are you using a light touch? That is most critical. Get a 10x magnifier and examine the scratch pattern along your current bevel. Next, do some circular strokes on the 3k side of your hone. Examine this new scratch pattern. Now do 10 x-strokes on the 8k side of your hone, with as little pressure as you can use and still control where the blade goes. Examine this new scratch pattern. Even with the hard TI steel, you should see some progress as the finer straight scratches begin to polish out the coarser curvy scratches. The purpose of this exercise is to convince you that a light touch is still effective.

Here is a thread with micrographs of the honed edge. The poster's purpose was to explore the effect of doing many passes at a single grit, but the pic that made the biggest impression on me was the second one, which shows the effect of using too much pressure while honing.

If you think you've been using a heavy touch, and are sure your bevel is set, and flattened your hones before you started to use them, repeat the pyramid but with a light light touch.

That's all I've got. Other folks will chime in soon. Good luck and best wishes.
08-23-2011, 01:51 AM
holli4pirating

My experience with TI's is that they tend to need a bit of work to get from the factory edge to a good bevel. I think you probably just haven't gotten the bevel set yet. Of course, I can't really tell without seeing the razor in person, but that is my best guess based on the info I have.
08-23-2011, 02:49 AM
ScottGoodman

A couple of things for you. I'm not sure what your shaving experience is, but we typically recommend that someone learn to shave first, then learn touch-ups on a razor, then learn to hone...on a lesser razor that's not on the Do Not Buy list. Secondly, when learning to hone, I sure hope you are using a layer of tape on the spine. Please tell me you are using a layer of quality electrical tape like Scotch or 3M to protect the spine.

With that being said, it seems that every TI that I have had to cross my path has been on the hard side (steel hardness). This takes a bit more time and patience on the stones. Key to honing is patience. The other guys have some great advice for you, but one last thing: Forget about the stinking HHT and the other tests right now & just worry about the only test that matters...the shave test.

Oh ya, one last thing. Click on the community tab and find someone with some experience close to you. This would help you greatly. While there, post your pin.

BTW...Welcome to the forum!
08-23-2011, 03:00 AM
dps

Quote:

It looks like you're honing the heel a little more than the toe, which means your elbow is running a little low on your honing stroke.

You are right, actually I new this, but I just get tired from keeping the elbow high, though nice catch !

Quote:

Have you flattened your hones? If not, you may not be getting blade-to-hone contact during the whole stroke, which could enormously increase your honing time

.

They were factory new, so I just didn't flattened them, they seemed flat for me. I plan to get a DMT 8C to flatten them when I go back to the states.

Quote:

My experience with TI's is that they tend to need a bit of work to get from the factory edge to a good bevel

Yeah, maybe I should just get the razor honed this first time and then maintain the edge?
I'll be in NY Sept 12, so I can ship it then, I saw your ad in the classifieds so I can send you the razor then.

Quote:

but we typically recommend that someone learn to shave first

I can shave perfectly fine, both with straights and shavettes, though I've never honed any straights, all of them have been hone from the seller (thesuperiorshave.com)

Quote:

Oh ya, one last thing. Click on the community tab and find someone with some experience close to you. This would help you greatly. While there, post your pin.

Good advice, I live in Colombia but frequently travel to NY, I think there is a meetup there coming soon.

Quote:

The other guys have some great advice for you, but one last thing: Forget about the stinking HHT and the other tests right now & just worry about the only test that matters...the shave test.

Right I did try to shave, but it sucked, it barely cut any whiskers.
08-23-2011, 04:31 AM
roughkype

I really like The Superior Shave.

I'd get too tired to keep my elbow high if I honed for an hour, too. Oh wait, I usually do settle in and hone for an hour. What helps me is that I always hold the hone in my left hand, I never leave it on a table. So I can twist the hone to keep it in the same plane as the blade. I still have to pay attention and hold up the tang with my last one or two fingers on the right hand to keep the pressure even across the whole width, or I overdo the heel.

The only factory hones you can assume are flat enough for us are the DMTs. Everything else should be lapped, whether natural or artificial. Get a 325 grit DMT plate; that's pretty much the standard tool for lapping hones. Anything finer won't hold up to lapping. It's OK if your lapping plate is smaller than the hones you lap with it. The big Norton lapping stones look tempting, but they themselves need to be flattened occasionally. Who flattens the flatteners? That way lies madness. Don't get a DMT lookalike; get the real thing. The lookalikes are often dished.

Good luck hooking up with the New York group. An hour watching a knowledgeable person hone is like 6 months of fumbling around on your own. I know this, 'cause I fumbled around for a long long time before I saw it done well.

Best wishes
08-23-2011, 05:22 AM
pinklather

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooter74743

...Oh ya, one last thing. Click on the community tab and find someone with some experience close to you. This would help you greatly. While there, post your pin. BTW...Welcome to the forum!

Bravo, Shooter! Getting w/ an experienced person will help more than all the reading and grinding you can do.