Honing a full wedge with a slanting spine

Hey guys,

I need a bit of help, some advice or just some expert opinions for honing a thick wedge.
It's this old stubby Bengall I got a couple of weeks ago, and I'm having a bit of trouble deciding how to hone this one.

The problem is this: there is a slight slant in the spine at the toe end. By this I mean that if you look straight to the 'front' of the blade (so perpendicular to the edge \/ ), there is a slight slant (about 1-1.5 mm) on the top, short side of the triangle.

It is a full smiling wedge, and the angle when laid flat on both side is, as far as I can see with the naked eye, the same.

But being as good at math and geometry as a sea cucumber, I'm not sure how to tape the spine (I always tape every razor I hone) as to not mess up the angle too much.

My instinct tells me to get the edges of the tape even horizontally and not trying to compensate the slant by uneven taping.

Or maybe I should hone this one without tape. Although I would not prefer that, there is plenty of spine compared to the blade width. I unfortunately don't have any measurements, but the spine is wide, and blade width about 6/8. No pictures either, because the camera I have is pretty so-so and I can't get it to show right.

Anyway, I thought I'd get some feedback here before messing up the bevel and wasting steel of a great blade in pretty damn good shape. Shoot.

You mention you have honing experience.
If this is the case then go head hone with or without doesn't matter.
I personally would prefer hone without tape.
As of today i have not see any old large blade perfect condition.
They will usually will be warped, smile on one side so on.
Honing without tape i do fix that issue first and finish the honing.
In the other hand Some wedges will not be honed without taping(some cases)
you have to figure it out and go for it.
Sham

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pithor

Hey guys,

I need a bit of help, some advice or just some expert opinions for honing a thick wedge.
It's this old stubby Bengall I got a couple of weeks ago, and I'm having a bit of trouble deciding how to hone this one.

The problem is this: there is a slight slant in the spine at the toe end. By this I mean that if you look straight to the 'front' of the blade (so perpendicular to the edge \/ ), there is a slight slant (about 1-1.5 mm) on the top, short side of the triangle.

It is a full smiling wedge, and the angle when laid flat on both side is, as far as I can see with the naked eye, the same.

But being as good at math and geometry as a sea cucumber, I'm not sure how to tape the spine (I always tape every razor I hone) as to not mess up the angle too much.

My instinct tells me to get the edges of the tape even horizontally and not trying to compensate the slant by uneven taping.

Or maybe I should hone this one without tape. Although I would not prefer that, there is plenty of spine compared to the blade width. I unfortunately don't have any measurements, but the spine is wide, and blade width about 6/8. No pictures either, because the camera I have is pretty so-so and I can't get it to show right.

Anyway, I thought I'd get some feedback here before messing up the bevel and wasting steel of a great blade in pretty damn good shape. Shoot.

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If I am visualising what you are saying correctly, I'm not sure it really matters too much. Sham is right: old blades, wedges in particular, come with all types of wacky geometries whether by (lack of) design or through the slow time-drip of idiosyncratic honing.

If you tape, I would not try to compensate for the geometry. Where I would "compensate", and that is not really the correct word here, is on the hone itself. You need to make sure each side of the bevel hits the hone, and that could mean rolling x-strokes, for example. You might get some benefit from a narrower hone - never worked any better for me, but I know some people find benefit in them. This is a pragmatic approach - to get the edge shave ready regardless of any lack of bevel symmetry. It can be done if you are careful.

However, if you don't like that idea, or feel it is so out of whack that you cannot possibly get the edge shave ready, I would suggest sending the razor to someone who knows how to deal with the issue. They will be able to perhaps hone the spine into something more symmetric, fix up the overall geometry, and make it into something easier for you to hone into the future.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

James.

For wacky blades with all sorts of wear, a narrow hone is a godsend.

Glen had a response on a thread like this that was quite helpful. If the priority was minimizing the appearance of wear, tape, hone, using strokes that hit the entire edge, be happy. The alternate being to use 45 deg. heel-leading x-stroke to correct the irregularities - then, normal honing can be done, and will be easier every time in the future. (Glen, pls correct me if I'm not conveying this right). Sham also has repeatedly said that the amount of hone wear has no bearing on the quality of the shave - its cosmetic - a vanity issue. I'm certainly as vain as the next guy, but I have many wonderful shaves from razors that look pretty tired. Perhaps Glen can weigh in here - his help is wonderful.

So far I've only honed with tape, and I admit, it is a vanity thing. And I have applied rolling X-strokes on smiling edges, with success. Reading back my original post, I think I made it too complicated, starting about tape and all.

I was basically wondering if you could get an uneven bevel when honing a full wedge with symmetrical edge angles where the blade width differs 1.5mm at the toe.

Don't worry about the width of the bevel.
As long as you have 'V" THAT IS all matter.
This is your own blade not someones else.
When you get better on honing go head fix the issue.
Wedges is a little tougher compare to hollow ground razors.
Gl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pithor

So far I've only honed with tape, and I admit, it is a vanity thing. And I have applied rolling X-strokes on smiling edges, with success. Reading back my original post, I think I made it too complicated, starting about tape and all.

I was basically wondering if you could get an uneven bevel from honing a full wedge with symmetrical edge angles but where the width differs at the toe.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Don't worry about the width of the bevel.
As long as you have 'V" THAT IS all matter.
This is your own blade not someones else.
When you get better on honing go head fix the issue.
Wedges is a little tougher compare to hollow ground razors.
Gl

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Makes sense. I kinda feel like I started worrying about something pretty much insignificant.

@pinklather: The irregularity, the one I would have to correct if I wanted a pretty looking blade, is not on the edge but on the spine. Honing down the spine to make it regular and flat seems like too much work and frankly just plain useless.

Even me worrying about an uneven bevel is quite besides the point because it's an absolute full wedge, it lies flat on both sides on a surface. The angle bevel to spine is pretty much symmetrical, so a difference in width actually has no effect on the angle with which the edge hits the hone.

I was getting worked up over nothing, really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pithor

<snip>
I was getting worked up over nothing, really.

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I'm glad we didn't have this conversation, then.


:)