Printable View
Mine arrived today. I opened my kitchen window halfway, reached through and put the stone against the glass on the outside, and stood there peering at it from the inside. It looks damn flat.
Do Nortons ever arrive flat enough just to use? The directions, such as they are, say nothing about preliminary lapping.
What would be the consequences of honing with a flat-but-not-perfectly-flat Norton?
They do sometimes but it's better to lap the hone anyways. It doesn't require much time/effort/expense and then you KNOW your hone will work properly. Make sure you round off the edges.
The directions that came in the box with mine did mention lapping. i wouldn't use one without lapping it first, at least not again. I tried using mine without lapping, and spent two frustrating weeks making steel dust.
The consequence of not lapping is the hone won't get the razor sharp, or at least not very sharp. In my case, I couldn't get the razor sharp enough to shave arm hair, even with pressure. Once I lapped my stone I had the razor popping hair in fifteen minutes.
Thanks for the info guys. I lapped it.
Now I've done two cycles of the "aggressive" pyramid and it doesn't seem to be getting sharper. How many cycles should I do before concluding there's something wrong?:confused:
Also, what sound should the 8K side make? Mine sounds a little 'scrapier' than the 4K. Kinda metallic. Weirdly, my 4K feels smoother on the razor - though it's obviously rougher to my fingertips.
Any help at all would be much appreciated.
Does it feel gritty when you're honing on the 8k? You may have bits of sandpaper abrasive stuck in it. Try scrubbing with a pot scrubber under running water. The 8k should feel very smooth when honing. The sound will change as the edge develops, recognizing the changing sound is one of those skills that you'll gradually learn.
As for # of aggressive pyramids you'll need, that all depends. The pyramid system is a pretty slow honing system, I think it's designed to help newbies achieve a sharp edge with a minimum of mastery, but at the expense of efficiency. Secondly, you have no idea how sharp the razor *really* was when you started -- a shaving sharp razor is an order of magnitude sharper than "razor sharp" knife so it takes awhile to calibrate your senses to the new level of sharpness you need. Thirdly, you're new at this so your technique is pretty certainly lacking; one bad lap on the hone and the next ten laps you're playing catch-up. Given all this, it could take quite a few iterations... Tape your spine with electrical tape while you're in this early learning phase. Don't hone for too long at one stretch, give it 20 mins a day max, otherwise you'll get frustrated and your technique will slip even further. You can use a little pressure early in the pyramid, but by the end you need to be using the razor's weight only.
Wow, thanks for all the info mparker. Yeah, my technique's probably pretty bad. But I am doing it very slowly, keeping the blade flat and no pressure beyond the weight of the blade.
I did in fact use a scotch brite to remove sand paper grit. Maybe I need to do it some more. It does have kind of a gritty feeling.
The sandpaper I lapped with, btw, was 600 grit, the highest I could find at Home Depot.
On another note, is it important that the bevel be the same width the whole length of the razor? Mine looks kind of variable.
Gary
If you only ever use the weight of the blade you'll hone very slowly; this is probably the right technique when you're starting, just be aware that it's gonna be slow so don't get frustrated; going slow is better than honing your razor into a steel toothpick.
The gritty feeling's a problem, it shouldn't be gritty at all. The 600 grit paper is fine for lapping, that's what I used, and if you read the directions that came with your stone, that's what norton recommends. But it sounds like you do have grit in the stone, and this will keep your blade from getting sharp, so you need to get it out. Brush it more with the scotchbrite pad *under* *running* *water* and see if that helps.
It's not required that the bevel be the same on both sides. It's not unusual for a razor to be a bit warped, but even so it's not unusual for one side to have a larger bevel than the other side, or for the bevel to be larger on one end and smaller on the other (so the edge is running kind of diagonally). Very few of my vintage razors have even bevels. It's not desirable, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal either. Still, I try to make sure that I'm not the one causing the uneven bevel, and I try to hone in such a way as to improve any unevenness in my vintage razors.
Thanks -- I'll try cleaning it again.
Tells us about the state of the razor. New? Ebay or antique store special? Visible nicks in the edge? Rust on the edge?
Will it shave arm hair? What tests for sharpness are you using?
Keep us posted,:)
It was a very old Joseph Elliot's I bought on ebay, lots of tarnish and a bit of rust on the spine, the back, and even the blade edge. W/plenty of Maas and plenty of elbow grease I removed all the rust and got the thing shiny as well. There were no nicks, but a bit of pitting left on the blade edge by the rust I removed. I lay down some wet 600 grit sandpaper on a glass plate and did some honing (no downward pressure at all), thereby removing all the pitting. Then I went to the Norton, and had the experience I posted about last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
I should say now that I gave the stone another scrubdown as per mparker's advice, and the 8K was supersmooth this morning - many thanks mp. I taped the spine and did one more round of the aggressive pyramid, then one round of the conservative. It shaved arm hairs and dug into my nails a bit but it sure wasn't 'popping' a hanging hairs. I don't understand the thumb test, so on that score I can't comment.
I did 20 laps on each side of a Tony Miller (3, 1, .5, .25), then stropped and gave it a go. It cut some hairs and pulled others. I finished the job with a Lynn-sharpened W&B.
But I feel like I'm getting somewhere. Maybe a few more 'conservative' pyramids? I can't wait to use this thing properly - it has real ivory scales and a lovely balanced heft in the hand.
-G
Once you leave the 8k you can go to the 1 micron paddle, no need for the coarser grits at that point.
As for sharpness, it's usually easier for beginners to use the paddle strop than a stone, so you might want to go back to the 3m side for 5 laps, then the 1m side for 10 laps and give it a test shave (just lather up a small section of your cheek, wait a minute to let it soften, and try a cross-grain pass). If it seems ok then finish polishing the edge on the 0.5 and 0.25. When I first started using the norton I got similar almost-but-not-quite shave-ready results, and salvaged things with the pasted paddle. Eventually you'l get better results with the norton, it just takes time to learn.
For sharpening with the paddle, I rest the end on the counter top and tilt it downwards at a 30-45 degree angle, and let gravity slide the razor slowly down the paddle, then flip the razor and pull it slowly back up.