Pyramid Schemes!

Greetings hone-meisters,

I've been reading up about the Pyramid method, especially Lynn's tutorial. A couple of questions remain -- maybe I'm striving for excessive obsessiveness, but . . .

1. Lynn describes the pyramid method using a 4k and an 8k Norton -- but I have Naniwa 5, 8, and 12k stones.

Do I repeat the pyramid process on the 8 and 12, after first doing it on the 5 and 8?

2. Lynn discusses holding the razor at a 45 degree angle relative to the stone, but the pictures don't show it. Of the two ways to do so, I assume I should hold the razor so the head leads the heel, rather than the other way round. Is that right?

(I hope it's clear what I mean by this)

Thanks,

Brenton

Hi Brenton,
If you look at gssixguns honing videos, he always uses a heel forward stroke and IIRC Lynn does too.
As far as the pyramid goes, I don't know ('cause I don't use the pyramid method), but you could try it and see how it works for you.
I would think it would only be for the 5/8k as the 12k is a finisher for the final polish of the edge

Thanks Hav',

I'll give that video a look-see. I was trying to "hone up" last night, head first . . . I think I made it duller, not sharper.

Could be my lack of a light touch, though.

I'll assume the heel-first position for round #2, tonight.

Understand that the Pyramid was designed for the Norton 4/8 but yes it does work very well on other stones too..

The objective was to allow a honer to learn to sneak up on the final edge and preventive overhoning...

If I were going to use it with a Naniwa SS 5/8/12 set up I would either go like Havachat45 said and do the 5/8 then finish 12.. Or do a full Pyramid and do 5/8 then 8/12 kinda would depend on how the razor was reacting... Try it one way first and shave a couple of weeks, then go the other route and see what works best for you.. :)
There is really no right or wrong way here...

Hi GS',

Thanks for chiming in! I've been enjoying your videos.

Your point about the rolling X type stroke is, I hope, also going to be helpful, as I've noted both my razors are not dead straight.

I only noticed it when I saw grey build-up on the edge of the stones as I hone. I confirmed it when laying the blade flat on the hones when they're dry -- then I could see that the blades don't lie flat.

Applying Lynn's method , as sixgun said, the 5/8 and finish on the 12k. When I had naniwas I liked to do the pyramid on the 3/5 and finish on the 8k. Lynn and Dylan were doing 5/8 and 12. Going to 12 was icing on the cake. Either way is good but the 12 is strictly for the finishing.

Update:

Ok fellows, I ducked out early this afternoon to work the pyramid, whilst trying to follow carefully from Glen's excellent videos. Test shave, and it looks like I've dulled the blade!

So I think I've got more a more basic problem, and I believe it's the un-straightness of the blade.

I'll need to make something of a study of the ways and means of rolling / x-stroking the blade so as to actually be sharpening it before i return to such advanced topics as pyramids etc.

I suspect that last time I honed my razors, the improved sharpness didn't come from the hones at all, but actually from the pasted T-I paddle strop that I "finished" the blade on.

Your key visual guide when using the X stroke/rolling X is to "watch the water flow from heel to toe".
I am assuming your going to use a heel leading stroke. As you move the blade across & down the hone the water should first puddle in front of the heel and the move gradually up the blade toward the toe as your blade come down and across. The water should not go under the blade.

One of us really needs to put up a video of this using the Norton 4K ( white) and the slurry from a BBW ( dark). This is what I use to show new guys in my home how to perform the X stroke.

I think the 'magic marker' might be of value here too.
Refer to the WIKI on the correct method.
Put simply, it involves drawing a line with a magic marker/sharpie along the bevel and doing a couple of light honing strokes to see where the edge is or is not touching the hone and adjusting your stroke accordingly.
I hope this helps

After my last update I spent a good bit of time last night, starting back at the 1k (naniwa), up through the 12 k, pasted T-I strop, and hanging strop before shaving.

So, while the shave felt smooth and didn't pull, it wasn't at all close this morning -- had to redo the shave with my trusty EJ safety. I thought I was getting the blade sharp, last night, but obviously not.

Your advice this morning, then, about the marker test and the water pooling test is much appreciated. This'll be my next try this afternoon, after work.

Many thanks.

Maybe this will help a little.

SRD DVD Honing Clip - YouTube

Have fun.

Thanks Lynn.

That video also nicely illustrates, I think, how the water should pool up ahead of the blade through out the stroke.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it is not going to look like that for me. If my memory from last night's failed honing attempt is accurate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrentonC

After my last update I spent a good bit of time last night, starting back at the 1k (naniwa), up through the 12 k, pasted T-I strop, and hanging strop before shaving.

So, while the shave felt smooth and didn't pull, it wasn't at all close this morning -- had to redo the shave with my trusty EJ safety. I thought I was getting the blade sharp, last night, but obviously not.

Your advice this morning, then, about the marker test and the water pooling test is much appreciated. This'll be my next try this afternoon, after work.

Many thanks.

---

Randy told me years ago ..... don't go to the 12k and the paste until you are shaving well off the 8k. If the razor isn't shaving well off of the 8k you are going to the polishing prematurely. Just wasting time, stone and metal.

I keep on forgetting to recommend the magic marker test. Use it, it is simple to do and definitive.

I didn't know that about the 12k. I'll keep that in mind.

the 1 and 5k naniwas are soaking as I type -- I'll grab a marker and get to it.

(playing hooky, I'm afraid, leaving work a bit early so I can get to this! Shhhh!, don't tell).

The Naniwas only require a few minutes of soaking. Don't leave them in water long. I normally just spray them for a few minutes until they quit drinking.

Have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrentonC

I didn't know that about the 12k. I'll keep that in mind.

the 1 and 5k naniwas are soaking as I type -- I'll grab a marker and get to it.

(playing hooky, I'm afraid, leaving work a bit early so I can get to this! Shhhh!, don't tell).

---

Alright, just a dip, and not a drenching for the Naniwas. Thanks for that.

So, with the blade lying flat on the stone, I can see that the toe on one side is not touching.

When I do the 45-ish degree X stroke, however, the blade passes the marker test!

At least that's good news.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrentonC

Alright, just a dip, and not a drenching for the Naniwas. Thanks for that.

So, with the blade lying flat on the stone, I can see that the toe on one side is not touching.

When I do the 45-ish degree X stroke, however, the blade passes the marker test!

At least that's good news.

---

Glad to see it's starting to work for you, Brenton.
Let us know how it shaves (off the 8k)
Hang on and enjoy the ride

Thanks Hav',

So far, I can tell you I felt grippage on the thumbnail after some strokes on the 1K.

Then, to the 5k, I believe I discerned some thumb pad evidence of increasing sharpness. After my dinner here at the local pub, if not too ... uhhhh, unsteady, I'll set to pyramiding the 5 and 8 k stones.

You know, maybe there should be a wiki on this, or maybe not, but you boys surely know what I mean when I say that there is a certain indescribable thrill when you seize yourself of this ancient art form, and begin to see some results from the efforts of your own hand. The shave was one such thrill, but actually honing my own straight razor -- It takes it to another level.

I'll report back with my efforts to progress from 5 to 8. I think I'll wait till the morning though. One thing I think I can "discern" is that I'm already a little . . . relaxed!