Today's hone job

I honed a vintage Wester Bros. No. 22 today. Started at King 1k then went to Norton 4k, 8k then C12k. I did about 30 circles across the stones alternating sides of blade about 5 times then 10 light laps minding pressure throughout on the 1, 4 and 8k's. Off the 8k seemed all good so moved up to C12k. Spent 45 mins on the C12k and wasn't really happy with it. The edge didn't mirror up like I wanted it to and it just didn't seem sharp enough/wasn't what I expected even though my experience is nil. My C12k stone seems weird. I wish I would've got the thicker one because it's tricky on a narrower stone. I didn't realize the thinner stone was narrower. I overlooked that when I orderd it. Anyhow, there's that and it seems really grabby and inconsistent even at light pressure. So anyways the edge off the C12k sucked imo but I have a 2 sided paddle style leather strop from Lee Valley with 1 micron on one side and clean on the other. I stropped forever on the 1 micron side and then went to clean. I'm overall very happy with the edge. Nice and mirror like and it pops arm hairs off like nothing and operates like it should from vids I've seen. Bummer is I notice in a few spots some scratches from I'm guessing the 12k. Oh well, I'm still proud of it and am looking forward to the shave test tomorrow *fingers crossed* I wonder what you guys think though? I feel like I spent plenty of/too much time on each stone but before paste my results aren't up to what I think they should be. I'm sure the bevel must have been set at 1k because I spent some good time there. Then I took my time and didn't rush through my progression so as to remove the previous stone's tool marks completely. Then the 12k was pretty weird and my result was bleh. Luckily the 1 micron cleaned it all up nice. Funny also it won't pass a HHT but maybe my gf's hair is too fine? I'm bummed about my DMT 325 4x10" lapping plate too. There is an imperfection and it leaves visible little tiny scratches in the stones. I hope I can take it back!!?? It's brand new :(

I am relatively new to honing as well so take this for what its worth.....

i did have success during JaNorton... there is a HUGE treasure trove of info in that thread.....so am confident i am ABLE to get a shaveable edge but by no means the PRO a large number of the guys here are but here goes nothing......

my first question would be what "test" are you doing to make sure the bevel is set? TNT, TPT, Arm/Leg hair? 90% of honing is setting the bevel and without that you are polishing an edge that wont shave. you should get Hairs to "POP" from the arm or leg at the 1k when the bevel is set correctly and then and only then move to the 4k.....as for too much time on a stone i can't really answer that BUT the hair should "POP" off the arm or leg better and easier each stone before moving forward.

also as for the HHT there is a GREAT thread that just and is going on....HERE

you should give it a read! i have NEVER used the HHT and have gotten decent to great shaves off a Norton 8k...as HNSB says near the end...(click to read)

READ THIS WARNING!!!!!!!

and it is TRUE TRUE TRUE......

also i have never used 1micron the highest i use is .5 but YMMV....i believe 1micron is equal to about a 16k stone but i am sure someone with more experience will chime in on this.

lastly do you have pictures of the DMT and what its doing? is it possible it just needs a "break in" period?? i know mine needed a little so i ran it across my Norton 220 2-3 strokes?

thats about all i got so i hope it helps a little....i am also interested in what the other guys have to say!

I'm like really sure the bevel is set. The razor went through a progression yesterday and I took it back to the 1k today because it needed more time on it I figured. The extra time didn't really make a difference so now I'm looking at my C12k being the problem. I can't get many arms hairs off a 1k but that could be normal for me judging by a reply to another thread and my experience so far. My arm hairs are kinda thick and wiry. Maybe I'm misinformed? I know gssixgun gets his arm hairs off a 1k but another member here said don't worry about that as it's tough. 4k and 8k arm hairs are no prob. 8k is obv better and the bevel looks nice and uniform. I think my C12k is just a junk stone cuz it seems to make an 8k edge worse. My 12k is grabby and rough like at light pressure the blade wants to skip across. It's like I can't use too light of pressure but to get it smooth seems to be too much pressure. I wish I would've got the Naniwa SS 12k and not cheaped out. Anyway, I use TNT and arm hair(to see if I can get a few lighter ones which is still tough) before moving off the 1k. The edge looks great now from the paste and strop but I think the tool marks left behind are probably from the C12k. I will have to try just the 8k and paste and see what that looks like. A pic of the 325 plate wouldn't show anything and I already lapped the scratches out of my stones on glass and 240 wet/dry. The plate is not uniform in one raised spot of abrasive that gouges all my stones slighty. It was mostly visible in the actual lapping process and on the stones. I'm not sure what difference it makes in sharpening but I'm guessing if I can see visible gouge marks on a stone from the plate although they may be slight they probably aren't good for sharpening a surgical like instrument on such as a straight razor. There was feedback passing over the scratches when I ran the blade over them then I said screw it and lapped them out on sandpaper and glass.

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Originally Posted by AndrewK

I'm like really sure the bevel is set...Are you sure? I can't get many arms hairs off a 1k but that could be normal for me judging by a reply to another thread and my experience so far. My arm hairs are kinda thick and wiry. Maybe I'm misinformed? I know gssixgun gets his arm hairs off a 1k but another member here said don't worry about that as it's tough. You should ignore that "other" member as you seem to be misinformed or just don't understand. Setting the bevel is 80-90% of the work put into honing a razor. If you can't get a razor to cut a arm hair at mid shaft along the entire edge, you will more than likely never get a good shave out of your razor.4k and 8k arm hairs are no prob. 8k is obv better and the bevel looks nice and uniform. What magnification are you using? I ask this because if you are looking at the side of the blade with the naked eye, you aren't seeing the bevel/edge. I have heard many new honers think that because the side of their razor is shiny and mirrored that their razor should be shave ready when they aren't. I think my C12k is just a junk stone cuz it seems to make an 8k edge worse. Stay with the 8K as your finisher for a while, because if you don't learn the first three stones (1,4,8K) as your honing "foundation" you will continue to have a hard time. My 12k is grabby and rough like at light pressure the blade wants to skip across. It's like I can't use too light of pressure but to get it smooth seems to be too much pressure. I wish I would've got the Naniwa SS 12k and not cheaped out. Anyway, I use TNT and arm hair(to see if I can get a few lighter ones which is still tough) before moving off the 1k. The edge looks great now from the paste and strop but I think the tool marks left behind are probably from the C12k. I will have to try just the 8k and paste and see what that looks like. A pic of the 325 plate wouldn't show anything and I already lapped the scratches out of my stones on glass and 240 wet/dry. The plate is not uniform in one raised spot of abrasive that gouges all my stones slighty. It was mostly visible in the actual lapping process and on the stones. I'm not sure what difference it makes in sharpening but I'm guessing if I can see visible gouge marks on a stone from the plate although they may be slight they probably aren't good for sharpening a surgical like instrument on such as a straight razor. There was feedback passing over the scratches when I ran the blade over them then I said screw it and lapped them out on sandpaper and glass.

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Please, just establish a foundation of knowledge with your stones to 8K first. If a honing veteran like Glen offers you advice, you should listen to him. It may not be what you want to hear, but most of us will shoot you straight.

Also remember that if you are listening to some members, their advice may be of good intention...but not be such good advice.

If I can be of assistance, please don't hesitate to contact me...
Scott

Scott's advice is spot on.

In regards to the edge not looking polished coming off your C12k, my stone does the same thing but it's still a really nice edge despite the lack of a polished bevel. Just know that a polished bevel means nothing when it comes to a razor being shave-ready.

i have a similar issue with my arm hair but my LEG hair seems to work great!! and it isn't as obvious to others!!

Some are also hung up with their "C12K". This is a bad name as some have found their stones to be sub 8K. If you guys don't know how to get a good shaving edge off of 8K & know that edge, how will you know if your "finisher" is really a finisher?

We will get you "straight" with a little time and patience AndrewK...btw, where are ya from?

Thanks Scott. I'm from British Columbia, Canada.

I feel like getting into the hone zone today a bit as kind of a therapeutic exercise. Heres is my modest set up:Attachment 93310
Kitty keeps me company and adds to the zen of the experience. Just doing some 1k work practicing the 45 heel leading swoop as the razor smiles slightly and checking things out with a 60-100x pocket microscope. This edge was really far gone like bk'd gone so this endeavour has been good learning. I wish I would've started with 45 then 20 degree raised spine strokes to save time. Nonetheless, I'm making visible progress :)

Andrew just a heads up, there is a Meet Up down in Yakima which is about a 4 hour drive for you, that many of us will be at..
I can promise you that you will learn more about honing there in 1 or 2 days then in 6 months of struggling through by yourself...

This Vid might have some tips for you too,, That is Mark's first time trying the hones

gssixgun Straight Razor Honing with speedster from SRP - YouTube=

I have the same problem with my cheapo c12K stone. All I do is dull the edge, every time. So I go back to my Norton 4/8K stone and settle for an 8k edge. ...Which is really not that bad. The c12K stone frustrates me every time so I've given up on it. The Norton 8K edge is just fine for now.

and you may already know this...but since it hasn't been mentioned yet...
a lot of people recommend that you take the shaft of a screwdriver (or something metal, long, round, and smooth) and run it over your DMT a few times before using. since you are dealing with a plate with diamonds on it, a lot of the time there are some that stick out a little further than others...causing scratches in your stones...so using the screwdriver is what some refer to as "breaking in your DMT" as it takes off some of those over-ambitious diamonds that stick up a little too high and levels out the field, so to speak.

i did that with my 8x3 to be safe and ran into no issues with scratches or gouges. but there are many more qualified to speak to this than me...so if one of them would confirm or deny this, i can then eliminate all risk of having good intentions and bad information :D

Great video Glen! I think that will help a lot of people.

+1 Ryan is dead on the DMT's when brand new need a break in with steel, a screwdriver shank or just honing a Kitchen knife or Hunting knife will do the trick..
We used to tell people to lap a Barber's hone or a Arkansas stone too :)

ps: Andrew I don't know if the PHIG is the problem, I have tested maybe 20 of them and very few are "Bad" ,, some are really good, most are good, and others are so-so (not worth the time) but I have only touched one that I thought was really bad and perhaps I didn't take enough time to get it to work...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndrewK

I'm like really sure the bevel is set. The razor went through a progression yesterday and I took it back to the 1k today because it needed more time on it I figured. The extra time didn't really make a difference so now I'm looking at my C12k being the problem. I can't get many arms hairs off a 1k but that could be normal for me judging by a reply to another thread and my experience so far. My arm hairs are kinda thick and wiry. Maybe I'm misinformed? I know gssixgun gets his arm hairs off a 1k but another member here said don't worry about that as it's tough. 4k and 8k arm hairs are no prob. 8k is obv better and the bevel looks nice and uniform.

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I'm not sure your bevel is set. If you can cut your arm hair at 4k & 8k then your arm hair is not the problem :)
If you can't easily shave arm hair at 1k, your problem may lie at that stage. Yes you can compensate along the progression for an incomplete bevel but shaving at the 8k level will eliminate the C12k as a factor & give you a better idea of where you're at.

In my opinion, like it or not.....if you can't cut arm hair easily on a 1k, you're bevel is not set, and you're not ready to move stones.

If you want assurance, check the honing forum. A bunch of us just shaved our whole faces from a 1k edge, not just a few arm hairs.

When I move to the 4k, I've got a nice bald patch somewhere on one of my arms, cut right against the skin. Just my two cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Andrew just a heads up, there is a Meet Up down in Yakima which is about a 4 hour drive for you, that many of us will be at..
I can promise you that you will learn more about honing there in 1 or 2 days then in 6 months of struggling through by yourself...

This Vid might have some tips for you too,, That is Mark's first time trying the hones

gssixgun Straight Razor Honing with speedster from SRP - YouTube=

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Thanks Glen, I pm'd you about that and I watch all your vids, Lynn's too and study the info here! :D I'm getting some one on one help from some very fine gentlemen in this forum as well. I'm an apprentice all over again. Lynn's DVDs are on their way also. I'm a little ahead of myself in playing on the 1k but was just bored and always curious.

I fixed my DMT with the screwdriver method and am just sticking to 1k until I know for sure this time the bevel is set. That was my problem before for sure is that it wasn't set correctly. My ego thought it was haha >.< But now I have magnification to aid me hehe. Also, I'm going to leave the PHIG alone and just focus on the 1, 4, 8k foundation after I get about 30 str8 shaves under my belt. I'm sure that I was the problem not the PHIG lol but I'll be looking at that much later after I get the foundation laid. This way, I'll be able to know if my finisher is really a finisher. Glen in your tips for March, you described me to a 'T'. I've changed my attitude and taken the pressure off of myself and really tried to slow down. It's more fun this way and it's not all about the destination anymore but also the ride :) I just wanted to update the thread I started a while back and let you guys know where I was at today.

After I set all that up and finished soaking my 1k, the doorbell rang and it was the mail lady dropping off a shave ready razor with some other goodies for me so I quickly got distracted as you all can imagine lol. I ended up just putting all my sharpening stuff away because didn't have time for it heh.

Thanks again guys