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So I am wondering how you guys that hone 100s if not 1000s of razors a year shave test them all?? Do you do each pass with a different razor, do you use multiple razors each pass thus only shaving a small section with each one or (and I don't see how this would work with amount of razors the guys in the Member Services hone each year) do a full shave with each razor? Don't know why I was think or wondering this but was so figured I'd ask. Thanks guys
Well I'm in the 100s category so often it is a maximum of maybe 3 or 4 at any one time. I think 5 at once may have been my biggest, but I digress.
Me, often I can afford to just hold one over to the next day if I have multiples. Otherwise I'll do maybe half the face with one etc. I am also lucky I have my head I can add into the equation if necessary.
That is assuming the customer allows me to test shave. I always ask, and some don't want a test shave. (actually the dude I hone via asks I think. I should ask him if he still asks actually).
James.
I asked the same thing recently, though I was surprised some of the big name honers didn't chime in.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?p=911403
To summarize many threads, most say the shave test is the only test. That is problematic at times because I believe many don't adequately shave test every part of the blade. And, the shave test is also too subjective as some whiskers are tough and others shave easily. Despite the frequency of the assertions that the shave test is the only test, it is not as good a test as you might think.
To summarize other sentiments, stated less often, the hanging hair test (HHT) is an excellent test. But, this statement is problematic as well because becoming adept with the HHT takes time and then even more time developing expertise.
The shave test is quite useful, but has limitations...
The HHT test is useful, but has limitations...
But, what else do we have to offer you? Even with those tests, you still have to invest a lot of time learning and developing expertise. I like to simplify. But, in this instance, I don't think it can be simplified further.
The shave test is the only test that matters in the end...
All the other tests get you to the shave test
All the other tests only matter to those that are honing the blade, not a shaver...
The biggest problem that many of you keep talking about, is new/just shavers trying experienced honing tests... (TNT AHT HHT TPT)
If you don't know how to hone, only one test matters
If you are honing then every test matters..
To the "Shave Test" by professional Honemiesters question... Honestly we pretty much know that the razor is shave ready before we test the edge with a shave, at least I do..
Not speaking for anyone else here, but by the time I apply the lather to test an edge, it has passed every other test I have, perfectly, the only question that remains at all and even that I pretty much know is how smooth it feels on my face...
Watch Sham's vid of him shave testing, one quick pass and we know what is there it isn't a mystery to those of us that hone a ton of razors...
I hone no more then 8 razors per day, that is my Skin/Test/Limit :)
I am perhaps a bit old-fashioned, but I like to use my razors for shaving.
As such, the 'only' test that matters is how well it shaves.
I think some of you misinterpreted the original question. It's not about the validity of the shave test at all. It's how the "honemeisters" can shave test the large number of razors they hone on a presumably daily/weekly basis.
Not performing a test correctly doesn't mean that the test is problematic. It means that the person who cannot do it properly is incompetent.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryAndro
The majority of beginners cannot perform a shave or a shave test correctly, that's because shaving with a straight razor is an acquired skill. Same goes for any other test you can think of.
But, when somebody has experience honing and shaving with a lot of razors, and many people happy with the edge he puts on a razor, that means that the transferability is there.
It's just what Glen said, by the time you lather your face you know 100% that the razor will shave. You know that from the feedback on the hones, on the thumbpad, on the armhair, on the hanging hair, on the strop... It is not all that hard, just a matter of experience.
I don't generally hone razors for other people, so I spend the time to tweak them to shave to the specific way I like them to shave. I can get a great shave from many different edges, but I have my preference, so if a razor doesn't quite shave like this I go to tweak the edge until it is as closely as possible to that (of course all razors are different, so they are approaching my perfect spot differently and end up in a different place from it). But this is way way way beyond shaving well, this is the territory of obsession.
I totally hear you on the "I KNOW" i was just wondering... so you hone 8 razors what "defines" the Shave Test for you of those 8?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
like i said i was just curious since i know a lot of you pros get a HUGE number of razors from ppl like me to restore and hone...and you only have one face....or do you???? :borg:
I was thinking of starting this same thread.
The various shave tests (e.g., HHT) have multiple variables that must be "calibrated."
Likewise, "the shave test" is not a precise definition: it is, in fact, much less well defined than the HHT.
I remember asking a well-known honemeister what, for him, the shave test meant. He replied that if he could cut hair WTG on his cheek, the blade passed the shave test. I was shocked.
I have to do an entire shave to determine whether or not a blade is adequate. For me, the lower jaw is the real test. If a 3 pass shave removes any remnants of bristle, then the blade is good. Cutting hair WTG on my cheek is only the beginning: I don't believe I've ever honed a razor that passed my non-shave tests that wouldn't accomplish THAT.
In brief, I alone can judge whether a blade is capable of shaving me to my standards. This is why I hone my own razors (and no one else's), and do not send my razors out to others.
Many people find though that people who hone professionally have standards which are comparable to their own. You may even yourself someday find someone who hones razors exactly the way you like them - and even though they are not judging whether the blade can shave you, they don't have to because both of you share such similar standards. Shaving is personal, but it's not like everyone has such different DNA that nobody can comfortably shave with a razor honed by someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
As to the original question, I have always wondered this about everyone who hones a lot. Unlike you, I also know why I wonder about it - it doesn't make sense to me how they can do it! But I also haven't honed a billion razors so I don't know what I don't know. Though I am still curious, it is not a question into whether they can perform all these shave tests, but rather how they do it - which really is just a trivial curiosity for my part. Because as long as it shaves me well, I'm happy :D
edit: of course, if it doesn't shave me well I'll either try another honer or pick up the skill myself (which I have) as pcb01 has done. I can't really make someone hone & test the way I necessarily want them to, I just have to try what they can do and decide whether I am happy with it
+1. I might hone one for someone once in a great while, and I might hone one that I sell, but by and large I only hone for myself. I know that I can get a good shave out of a razor that won't pass HHT because before I could consistently get HHT on razors I honed I got good shaves out of the percentage that didn't pass HHT. I suppose the shaves were better for the ones that would pass, and I've gotten to the point in my honing where I can consistently achieve a positive HHT so I do. IOW, if it won't pass I hone until it will. I don't calibrate it in degrees of HHT BTW. If it passes it passes. I don't think it is necessary for everyone to insist that the pro honed razor they receive will pass HHT ......before they find out how it shaves for them. YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
As for the shave test, since I don't normally hone for others, my test is my whole shaving area with WTG and ATG , or a modified ATG in some areas. For me, like pcb01 the jawline/chin is where the rubber meets the road. Matter of fact, I can get by handsomely with one WTG on my cheeks to the jawline and have an acceptably smooth face. The neck and jawline/chin are a different kettle of fish and I need at least two passes to smooth those areas out. If a razor isn't truly shave ready, it may shave me adequately on the WTG on the cheeks, but it will not deliver the goods on the jawline/chin areas on my particular face.
The good news is that any pro honer will stand behind his work. The hell with the HHT. If the razor shaves well it is shave ready. If it doesn't don't start worrying about whether it will or won't cut hanging hair. Let the honer know and he will hone it again for you. I like to hone razors the same way I like to go shoot at the target range or ride a mountain bike on a single track off road trail. When I want to. If I had a gang of razors that belonged to other people waiting to get them back I would soon not like to hone anymore. YMMV.
you my friend are the WINNER!!! this was really as you stated a trivial curiosity of mine! The 3 member I have hone my razors (Lynn, Glen and Max) have put FABULOUS edges on the razors that shave great and I'm pretty sure if I had had an issue they would have taken care of it! In the way of re-taking a look at it or pointing out that I should be using the thin NOT the thick side of the razor! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
It's amusing and enjoyable to me that a seemingly simple "how in the H**L does one shave test 8-20 razors in a day??" turned into a microscopic observation of HHT (I've never used it) and Shave test!! The passion of the members here is what I truly love and enjoy about SRP!!!
Well for me, I don't hone nearly as much as the big boys, but my shave tests involve two different patches.
I test a patch on my cheek and a patch on my neck, with every razor. I'll shave test 4 razors at a time, so each razor is covering a quarter of my face in total. Some guys can test more razors per shave, but this is my comfort zone.
As Glen mentioned, before you even lather you know that the razor is essentially shave ready. It may need a minor tweaking after the shave, but it's 99 percent dialed in. You can tell this from about a 2" square patch on your skin. That enough space to test the toe, middle, heel, and do a scything stroke.