Advice on a large smiling wedge....

Guys,

I recently traded for a few wedges, and one of them, a 6/8 W&B pure wedge (some hone wear, not bad and fairly even) with a curved spine and a smile. And as you can see in the pics, it has a slight lean toward the right side on the grind. Made it a challenge to find the right scales to put it in.

I took this razor to the DMT as it was very wavy on the edge and smoothed it out with a few 45 degree strokes. Not really a BK per se, but more an edge refinement prior to honing on it.

It has an exceedingly thick spine and has almost 0 grinding inclination, being very close if not a complete wedge. It is near the toe where the most spine wear exists, as would be expected. The smile on the edge is very slight and the curve to the spine is greater than the curve to the edge.

Most of the razors I have honed have been fairly square, spine and edge, so this is fairly new territory for me. The few smiles I have done had fairly square spines, or the spines and the smile matched fairly closely.

I have watched some of Glen's videos regarding smiles and had mastered the 'swoop' fairly well and managed to get some good edges on them.

Now to this wedge. Here a some pics, I've tried to show the spine wear and the bevel that I ended up with.

I will attach as many pics as it will let me, showing the spine, the wedge and the bevel that I have gotten:

Attachment 94326Attachment 94327Attachment 94328Attachment 94329Attachment 94330Attachment 94331Attachment 94332Attachment 94333

As you can see, she is a pretty thick wedge, thickest I ever tried.

Now the reason for this post..

First, the bevel is coming out very uneven. I used 3 layers of tape on her and started on the 1k. I wasn't getting hardly any results from the 1k since it had dulled it severely on the DMT, and went down to the 800 to try and establish a first bevel. What I got was hardly nothing at the toe and heel, note 'almost' there is a small bevel starting after doing many heel forward strokes and the 'swoop' stroke at the end. I've done a fair amount of circles, but that only seems to deepen the bevel in the center and does nothing for the toe and heel.

I've tried doing some rolling X's, as well as some finger pressure on the heel for a series of strokes, then on the toe for a series of strokes.

Now, should I continue to do what I'm doing? Is there a better way I've not learned yet?

Any advice on working this one out would be helpful, as I am open to any suggestions at this point. After working it on the DMT until the edge was smooth (remember, not a BK, but rather more of a honing stroke with the spine raised slightly until the edge resembled what I wanted it to look like) I have probably put at least 2 hours into it trying to get a bevel. I didn't want to subject it to any more of my punishment until I got some advice as to whether I should keep doing what I'm doing or take another path.

It pops hair in the center, but not so much at the heel and toe. It will remove some hair at both points, but not in a way that seems like a good bevel to me. Under Mag it doesn't look like what I would expect to see, as it kind of appears to have 3 bevels, one at the heel, one in the middle and one at the toe.

What say you, oh masters of the art????

Thanks!!

Mike

Back and forth honing aka Japanese honing with pressure and direction can pull the heel and toe into line... use an extreme heel forward angle and move the razor at that angle too... ie: you have to get the bevel cut on there so you have to make the edge touch the hone...

I can't tell you how many of these I have honed that have never had an edge even on the last 1 inch of heel :( in the past they got it good enough to shave and just winged it :)


You have to understand until you get a complete bevel at least established you are not "Honing" you are "Restoring" that no pressure, light stokes, stuff is for honing :p you have to form an edge.. Be a man take control LOL

You might also try and hone it more toward a smiling profile :)

oh I forgot "Have Fun" (ala Lynn) remember if you smile while you hone, the razor is less likely to frown, and smile with you... (OMG that was bad)


ps: beginners reading this, we are talking restoration here NOT normal honing

Lol you answered a question that I had and had forgot to ask you Glen! My 9/8 wosty wedge has atleast 1/4in not on the hone...Will be trying this shortly :)

and if it doesnt work....I am sending her to the circus!!! or sandpoint Idaho for a little honing, either way she will obey!!! probably not me, but thats ok she will obey someone!!! *cue evil laugh :rofl2:

also, since you were taping the spine and working on a 1k for 2 hours you probably needed to refresh the tape...

*edit - misunderstood what you meant by 3 bevels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Back and forth honing aka Japanese honing with pressure and direction can pull the heel and toe into line...

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That is how I honed your Genco at the Colorado meet back in July.

::EDIT::

I also have two W&B wedges (5/8 and 7/8) clunkers if you want something to practice on before game day on your wedge. Let me know and maybe we can have a honing day. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Logistics

That is how I honed your Genco at the Colorado meet back in July.

::EDIT::

I also have two W&B wedges (5/8 and 7/8) clunkers if you want something to practice on before game day on your wedge. Let me know and maybe we can have a honing day. :)

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Yes indeed, we still need to get together for a honing day!!!

Well, I've been working it like that for about the last 30 minutes and sure as heck, the bevel is starting to come around. I guess with these big old beasts, gentle just doesn't cut it. Treat em mean and get em keen!! I've retaped again and moved up to the 1k from the 800. I'll work it a bit here and see how the toe and heel shape up.

One question tho! Once I have a good bevel, do I just hone as usual?

Good to hear from you Travis!!

Mike

When working on blades like this that needs to be worked a bit, once the bevel is set I do a few last light stokes on the 1K and then keep on honing as usual. (Usual as in progression/pressure what type of strokes will of course vary)

Well, I would call this a successful post. I used a LOT of pressure on the 800 using the Japanese approach as discussed. Major heel forward type strokes, maybe about 100 each side to get the bevel shaping up. Then using a variant of a rolling X stroke I was able to make a pretty darn good bevel. It took a lot of work to get it there, but I had it popping hair pretty much all along the bevel when I was finished. I worked on just the 800 for almost 40 minutes. I moved up to the 1k and improved it a little with another 20 minutes of work before I was sure I could move on to the 4k. The TNT was very favorable, so I re-taped and moved up to the 4k. I had to do a bunch of modified circles and rolling X's but eventually it looked as good as it popped hair. On one side the bevel is pretty much equal the whole length, where one side, which had a much deeper bevel in the center has a thinner bevel 'inside' the larger bevel that is consistent the whole length of the blade. It was sending hair flying before I moved up to the 8k. I polished using my basic routine, except I had to use modified circles to make sure the toe had good contact, then about 40 rolling X's per side and it shaved hair off the arm no problem. Did a small patch on my leg, and a little one on the belly (the belly lets me know smoothness) and it was pretty darn good.

I finished it with a regular routine of 40 circles (modified) and 20 rolling X's per side on the N12k, flipped the stone and repeated that and now hair runs screaming in fear.

I'm off to shave test it now!! Wish me luck, and thank you to all who pitched in with some advice, I took a little bit of it from everyone!

I was already to far into it to back off now Logistics, but having a couple to practice on isn't an issue as I have at least 4 more wedges to play with. I just really wanted this old W&B to be shave ready so I could test it today if possible.

I'll post the shave report when I'm done!

Best all!!!!!!

M

OMG!!!

I did it right. It was smooth, sharp and fun!!!!

A heavy old W&B wedge, and I could hardly tell what was happening, there was so little feedback. It was so sharp and smooth, it removed the top of every single bump on my face without the slightest sting to it. The only indication I had was a tiny drop of blood in 3 places where I had some razor bumps from shaving so much this week!!

Thanks for all the input guys, it really helped. I'd be proud to let anyone have a shave with this one, probably the hardest to hone razor I ever did successfully.

Wow!!

M

Guess ya showed her who was boss :tu

Restoration vs Honing there is a bit of difference there LOL

I use The "Japanese Strokes" and some Half Strokes with a swoop, then of course the Circles, until I have something of a bevel, then I start "Honing"

Good Job Mike !!!

well, and dangit, I just re=read a lot of what I wrote, and I kept saying 'toe forward' when I really meant 'Heel forward', I just kept typing that, I don't know why :(.... hehehe

Seriously, it was all Heel forward strokes just like Glen described, I just kept saying toe for some dumb reason!!

oh well, dumb is as dumb does.. LOL

M

Well done Mike, welcome to the world of blade restauration :)

It can be real frustrating sometimes, but the satisfaction of taking an old wrecked blade back to life is even better than the first shave with a self honed razor cause you can do it over and over again :D

I have a quite similar W&B as yours, it's a marvellous razor, no doubt one of my top 3 at the moment, so smooth and comfortable.

If Dante were to update his classic 'Inferno' from the Divine Comedy, another layer of Hades would be added in which guys would face mountains of sheffield wedges and have to spend the rest of eternity setting sheffield bevels. :)