I don't get it.

I'm somewhat new to the "classic" shaving phenomenon, and I must admit I am thoroughly confused. I am sorry if this comes off as rude, as it is not at all my intention. While I am of the opinion that the "old school" method of shaving is very likely superior to much if not all of the garbage on the market today, I absolutely cannot fathom the "upkeep" and "materials" currently required.

It seems as if we need to send our razors to "honemeisters," invest in very costly belgian sharpening stones, use multiple grades of diamond abrasives and so on to create and/or maintain the "perfect edge."

From what I can gather, none of these options existed (at least, not in any quantities) during the "golden age" of shaving which we seem to be trying to emulate.

I think if I tried to explain to my grandfather the costs and materials associated with "old fashioned shaving" (myriad of very expensive honing materials, "premium" badger hair, and such) that he would tell me I was being taken as a fool.

So my question is whether all of these things are actually required, or if they are simply the second, third, fourth, and fifth bladed vibrating accessories currently on todays "newest" razor?

Well, compared to what a person would spend on disposables in a life time (estimated at $10,000 according to national geographic), the cost of our old school methods is much less than that.

There is that initial bite of the wallet when you first start out, but monetarily, the upkeep is next to none. We're probably forced to invest more time into the art of shaving on the straight razor path, but, if you talk to anyone here, you'll probably quickly find that we all enjoy it. Shaving is no longer a grudge in the daily monotony, instead, it's one of the plus'.

I think you might have used the wrong group of people to base the amount of shaving gear on. All us SRPers seem to have a need to aquire as many razors and shaving paraphenalia as possible :) When it all comes down to it, the only neccessities are a strop, a razor, and some place to have the razor honed when it gets dull. Three things, and well worth it :D

I'm one of those that's not really affected by most AD's.

I have a simple brush....$5 or so on ebay was the price.
Simple (cheap) soaps and creams....most cost $5 or less I have only about 4-5
3 colognes....(those are a bit pricey but not needed)
cheap aftershaves (tried a few and I'm pretty much down to 3 that I use.)
2 hones (a rough one that I had for my knives...don't even know the grit level and a belgian coticule that I got for cheap on e-bay)
a cheap strop ($15 or so)
and a couple of razors. Offcourse I trade off razors here and there as well but I do that out of need for "pocketmoney" not because I want to try them all.

And That'll be it pretty much.
It needs not be expensive. If you take my first razor and all teh other materials that I have at home I haven't even spent $120 or so on equipment.


Although by now I have 1 very nice TI that set me back $140.

As w/ anyting in life: you can get good workable quality for a reasonable price and the last 10% towards top quality easily doubles or trebles the price. Many SRP members are perfectionists!

Tony Miller sells good quality beginners' sets: they're all you need for the years to come, saving you in the long run a lot of money compared to the disposables you would have used otherwise unless you want to sport a beard.

Many members sooner or later get caught by an AD (-acquisition disorder) and want more and better. They're hobbyists. Same thing withs stamps. Most people only buy them to put on an envelope, some have a huge collection of them.

Hope this helps.

As a beginner, I asked myself the same question not that long ago. Infact, I did a little calculation on it the other day and came up with the following.

For a couple a 2nd hand razors (two of which were sent off for honing),
A norton 4000/8000 combo hone,
A good strop from Tony :bow (I haven't actually bought yet but I'm going to soon :y
A kent Pure Badger brush

It cost me about £80-£100.

Now, using this same amount to buy a Mach 3 Blades (which would cost me about £1.50 per head [which is the same price I paid for a good usable straight on ebay :y) ]), ashuming that I could use each head for about 2 week of everyday shaving (like that's going to happen beause they never last me that long), I would only be able to shave for just under 3 years.

Now, I belive that the razors, the stone, the strop, should last me for a very long time (maybe even for ever :w ). So after that calculation I realised that it is actually cheaper to use a straight (with all the extras), as it should pay for itself within about 3 years.

Well there's my thoughts anyways.

Steven

Though thinking about it, I'm not sure how many years you could get for the same prices using double ended razors (or even using a straight razor that uses half doulbe ended razors). I think it would be a lot more because double ended blades cost next to nothing (I mean £1 for 10 blades is a good price!). I imagine you could get about 10 years for the same price, but I could be wrong.

I fact I have been using the straight razor with disposible razors and I can get almost a whole weeks shaving out of it before I have to use the other half of the blade.

I know some people here don't really agree with using straight razor with disposible razors, but if you want the same close shave without the INITIAL investment in price, I'd go through this root.

I did and I just made me want to go the whole way (real straight razor, strop, etc), many because I like the eccentricness of it :y )


Steven

I am just starting out too. So far i have spent about $20 on two razors, $10 on soap, $20 on a badger brush and i'm about to drop about $35 on a strop. I have a 4000 and 6000 grit stones already.

I have noticed that as on many forums there is quite a lot of cooing about new purchases, but that doesn't mean every member is spending £/$1000s on kit! It is just people like to talk about new stuff, and bargains they have found.

Might also have something to do with our western materialistic individualist culture too :)

Most people don't have all the stuff that say, I, have. Even in the old days, though, there was all the stuff available that we have today, with the exception of maybe the Nortons. People used straights all the time, so barber hones, Escher stones, Coticules, and all that stuff were probably more readily available (and much less expensive) than they are today. For those who didn't have this stuff, honing services were available, and apparently often utilized. The thing is that really not much has changed...it's just that with the advent of the internet, we talk about it more. Today, it's unusual, rather than being what everybody else does. You can get by with a razor, strop, and a brush today, same as you could 100 years ago. But just like 100 years ago, if you want to maintain your own, you need specific, specialized hones.

Most razor companies offered honing, and would give you 10 free hones with a razor or such. That's ten different times you can send you razor in to be professionally honed. (not ten actual stones) If they weren't free, you could send a nickel, or even a 0.05$ stamp as payment and they would send it right back out.

I would also venture to say that they didn't have the diamond pastes back then.

They also probably stuck to the three or four well known grades of badger, pure, best, silvertip, super silvertip. I don't think badgers began growing Upland Manchurian Super Fu Man Chu Badger Goatee's (only one brush per animal yeild) until the most recent interest in wet shaving.

you can easily get by with $100-150 in equipment. In regards to the $10,000 mark for cartridges, I bet that Dr. P (SMF and B&B) has spent that in brushes alone. It's up to you, and your tax bracket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Most people don't have all the stuff that say, I, have. Even in the old days, though, there was all the stuff available that we have today, with the exception of maybe the Nortons. People used straights all the time, so barber hones, Escher stones, Coticules, and all that stuff were probably more readily available (and much less expensive) than they are today. For those who didn't have this stuff, honing services were available, and apparently often utilized. The thing is that really not much has changed...it's just that with the advent of the internet, we talk about it more. Today, it's unusual, rather than being what everybody else does. You can get by with a razor, strop, and a brush today, same as you could 100 years ago. But just like 100 years ago, if you want to maintain your own, you need specific, specialized hones.

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My mother's uncle, the only person I know who had grown up with straights and never switched to disposables had, AFAIK, only razors and a loom strop. He knew a barber who did his honing. The loom strop had only plain leather on it. That was it.

Much of it, strops, paddles, red/black/green pastes were around, Eschers, Coticule and Barber hones too. Nortons and other synthetic stones are modern day improvements on items that were arounf back then too.

As mentioned before prices were much better. two of the Eschers I owned had less than $2 price strickers on them originally. Today they would fetch $75-100 on eBay to a razor guy, $150-$200 to certain other types of buyers.

Tony

The old hones still work, but they're just not as consistent or as fast as the modern synthetic waterstones and diamond pastes. They had arkansas stones back then, and the translucent arkansas stone will definitely get a razor shaving sharp. But it's slower than a norton; I use my norton to get the initial edge, then use the arkansas after that.

My great grandfather had a hanging strop and a board with green paint on it, accd to relatives. I've heard that at least some green paint back then was colored with chromium oxide. He also got his razors sharpened by barbers, and tinkers would also come around and do sharpening on razors (as well as scissors, knives, saws etc).

Phlanx,

You can save some of the initial investment by going with a double-edged, or safety, razor. The blades for them are available for $0.15 to $0.50 on eBay, and you get about five to seven shaves out of a blade. At $.15 a blade that's $11 a year.

The razor itself you could get used on eBay for $5 to $10. Some Proraso cream at Target costs $6 to $7. Grab a bowl or latte mug for $5. A cheap brush is $5, and a nice beginner badger is $35. Either will last you for many years.

So for less than $60 you can get rid of your Mach 3 and canned gel and get better shaves. The brush and cream, for me, made a huge difference over canned gel, and even if I was forced to use a cartridge razor again I would still use a brush and real shaving cream.

After that, a year of blades is only another $11. If you live to be 75 that'll be around $750.

It's really not that expensive. The real cost of a Mach 3 is hidden because you get the razor and a few blades for pretty cheap. But then you're beholden to Gillette forever, and in a few years they'll stop making your cartridge, so you'll have to get a new razor...

Josh

Exactly. Do you mean to say double edged blades are no longer available in shops?

No, you can still get some DE blades in stores. Wal-Mart carries cheap Personna blades, and there are some others. Most of the blades I've seen in brick-and-mortar stores have been cheap varieties.

Buying in packs of 100 via online stores is the easiest way to get good blades, I've found.

Josh

okay. i've been pretty outspoken on this subject for quite some time now. this is all you really need:

--ONE razor ( i have a spare, but i've yet to use it for anything other than the hell of it). you can get a shave-ready for forty bucks that will last you forever. plus, by buying it shave-ready, you'll know what that feels like for when you have to hone it. 40 bucks.

--ONE stone: the norton 4k8k. 70 bucks.

--ONE strop: you can get one that is more than adequate for 35 bucks.



these are optional, but for nineteen dollars it's worth it:
--ONE boar brush. 5 bucks.

--ONE cake of really good soap from colleen will last you four to six months. 6 bucks.

--ONE aftershave. i've been using the same bottle of thayer's for three months and it's still three quarters full. still, it's the most optional of all the optional items. 8 bucks.



you can believe me when i say this because this is the setup i use. the only exception, as i said, is that i have two razors, one of which i don't really need.


total: $165. all of these except the soap and thayer's will last the rest of your life.

If you look at it from a perspective of necessity, you can get by without spending a lot of money. You need a razor, a hone, and a strop. Any or all of those can be new or used at some very good prices. Hanging around here, you can find the best choices for the price range you feel is justifiable.

If, however, you look at the shaving experience as a dedicated process, everything changes. Then you need lots of razors n soaps n stones n brushes n poo foo n razor talk. At this stage, it is no longer a menial task, it becomes an important event... a milestone for the day.

I'm guessing...

You're guessing right Bill. I couldn't have put it better myself. :D

I almost forgot...

Those who just want to have the basics may be inclined to learn a little here 'til they are comfortable with the info and move on with a new experience under their belt. They may use a straight for the rest of their lives without ever having to come back here to talk about it. The ones who do like to talk about it have a tendency to get a little more carried away with whole environment of the shave.

Think about it... Most of the talk and hype here comes from the guys who really enjoy this stuff. It becomes more than just an implied duty to shave. Look at it as having the passion to add more than just a few books to a nice library.

I can definitely relate to that... Promised myself a day off to let my face rest from the Feather, but when I saw that my TEW was next in the rotation, I couldn't resist. And I couldn't just go to my doctor's, I had to pick up a bottle of Truoil on the way back from a supplier I had to beg for almost a week as they only deal with retailers. And no, I'm not obsessed. I'm a perfectly well-adjusted individual :w

I think King Gillette is smiling in his grave. Its easy to look at the initial cost of straight razor stuff and think its a load of cash. I had the same initial reaction. I think the breakdown of $165 for stuff is probably in the ball park.

I crunched some numbers just for fun. This amount is roughly comparable with using the mach 5 system at 1 cartridge / week. ( 8 cartridges @ $25 Amer. * 6 = $150. ) If you figure in the resale price of your initial investment at 50% of what you paid, your break even point is 6 months. After that, you are money ahead. :)

This analysis may seem a bit silly as I would doubt there are any here who were initially attracted to straight razor shaving because it could potentially save them money. Don't, however, be scared away by price. Disposables really do cost more. If you get bit by the collector bug, you have to spin the numbers a little differently. But that's a matter for a different thread.

Now that that's out of the way, I think the biggest barrier is the knowledge and you've come to the correct place to get that. :tu

An old razor, honed, with a barbers hone and a strop should keep you shaving for a decade; for probably under $75. I think thats pretty easy and inexpensive compared to alternatives. Then again, the shaves are better so there is that angle too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idaho mike

This analysis may seem a bit silly as I would doubt there are any here who were initially attracted to straight razor shaving because it could potentially save them money.

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For me, that certainly wasn't the biggest reason, but it certainly was one. I had been using an electric, and realized I could buy a straight for the same price, but I wouldn't have to charge or replace it.

I had to go back and read the original post to get the real point of this thread.

Yes, initially it is confusing. Do I need a strop, paddle strop, oxide do-dads, hones, coticules, Belgians (no one wants one of them) etc and how can I invest in the magic art of honing ?.

It would also be too easy to spend a fortune on all of the bits and pieces some of the more dedicated and experienced straight shaving members have only to confuse you more and more than likely put you off before you start.

But want and need are two different things.

You need a shave ready razor (coz you don't know yet how to hone).
You need a strop to keep the edge true.
You need a hone which you will eventually have to know how to use.
And you need some form of shaving cream / soap and a brush to apply it.

Later you will want:-

More razors.
A better strop.
Paddle strops with every colour and grade of paste possible.
More hones than coals sent from Newcastle.
An assortment of soaps, creams and about 20 bald badgers worth of brushes.

Gary...at about stage 3 of the assimilation process.

I know this hobby has been very expensive for me as i got into it recently. I bought the following.

2 brushes.
Moss Scuttle.
6 straights, one more on the way, and 1 more to be ordered.
5 soaps.
1 a/s splash.
2 a/s balms.
2 colognes.
Hanging strop.
Pasted paddle strop.
Norton 4K/8K.

Also I already had 3 japanese water stones for knives in 800, 1K, and 1.4K grits which I lapped and could use for restorations.

I'm now at the point where I can take a blade in fair condition and bring the edge back to being perfectly shave ready. The only thing I'm not yet happy about is restoring the bevel/edge to a rusted old ebay blade. But I'm quite capable of keeping my current razors in tip top condition.

Other than soaps and a/s products, I don't realistically need to spend any more money for a long time. The razors should easily last several lifetimes, the hones will probably outlast me the amount they are used. The soaps I have will last probably 3 years.

If I write off the initial outlay now, going forward this should be a very cheap hobby for me - execept of course if I decide I want something for a change or just to add something rare/nice to my collection.

:)

Iwan,

Its like most hobbies or sports the initial outlay is the killer. I play golf or I did before my ankle surgery. The outlay there was fairly steep but I have had the same clubs for 15 years Same spikes for ten same bag for 15 so its just balls and greens fees now.:tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idaho mike

This analysis may seem a bit silly as I would doubt there are any here who were initially attracted to straight razor shaving because it could potentially save them money.

---

It was certainly a factor for me. I was horrified at the price of the new Fusion razors/blades, disappointed in the quality of the shave, and I needed to change blades after 2 shaves with Fusion or Mach3 as they were already starting to pull uncomfortably.

I went over to DE razors after finding B&B, and was overwhelmed at the improvement in shave quality over Mach3/Fusion, and the fact that you could buy 100 blades for £10.

Straights was a natural progression, and now the ongoing cost of blades is zero. Plus I'm not putting metal/plastic into landfill every week like before. :)

Most of us at SRP have a disease called Straight Razor Shaving. They buy what they want and not what they need.

There are a few sellers on ebay including myself that sell shave ready razors. There are sellers on this site who sell some of the best straight razors in the world.

Lynn Abrams and Bill Ellis are Masters. You can buy a great shaving straight razor for $40 to $60. Tony Miller and Keith at Hand American offer quality strops starting at around 20 bucks. You don't need to buy a lot of stuff if you get a shave ready razor, all you have to do is maintain that edge. Tilly sells a lithide hone for $15, Tony sells a great paddle strop for $38, and Keith sells a great paste for $7.99 and pasting strop for $16.

I don't think we hit a hundred bucks yet and by the way, nothing comes close to a straight razor shave.

How much do you spend on cartridges?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iwan

It was certainly a factor for me. I was horrified at the price of the new Fusion razors/blades, disappointed in the quality of the shave, and I needed to change blades after 2 shaves with Fusion or Mach3 as they were already starting to pull uncomfortably.

I went over to DE razors after finding B&B, and was overwhelmed at the improvement in shave quality over Mach3/Fusion, and the fact that you could buy 100 blades for £10.

Straights was a natural progression, and now the ongoing cost of blades is zero. Plus I'm not putting metal/plastic into landfill every week like before. :)

---

It was a factor for me also but I was originally attracted by the mystique. I started looking at straight razor prices and got sticker shock, so I started crunching some numbers to see if I could justify the initial outlay of cash. :) When I realized it was actually cheaper, I was pleasantly suprised. Also, for the really thrifty, you can beat the prices on used razors, hones, etc.

Bottom line: we're removing hair from places where we don't want hair using a sharp piece of metal and a lubricant. (And even that is "looxury" compared to the original shavers who I'm sure used nothing more than a sharp rock or perhaps one of those Pakistani razors! :D )

Let's face it - technically, hair removal with a straight requires a single razor and something to keep it sharp with. Doesn't have to be a gold-inlaid Dorko with mother-of-pearl handle and a Norton combo stone etc. Whatever works will do.

But, using a straight is about more than just utility for most of us, I'd guess. It's something akin to a hobby at the very least, and an obsession at the other end of the spectrum. It's just something that happens when people get involved in old things - car restoration is a good example. A beat-up old escort will get you from point A to point B, but it's much more fun (and satisfying) to do it in a fully restored, shiny valiant.

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iwan

It was certainly a factor for me. I was horrified at the price of the new Fusion razors/blades, disappointed in the quality of the shave, and I needed to change blades after 2 shaves with Fusion or Mach3 as they were already starting to pull uncomfortably.

I went over to DE razors after finding B&B, and was overwhelmed at the improvement in shave quality over Mach3/Fusion, and the fact that you could buy 100 blades for £10.

Straights was a natural progression, and now the ongoing cost of blades is zero. Plus I'm not putting metal/plastic into landfill every week like before. :)

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This is exactly the route I am going through right now, though I have yet to get my first true straight razor and am getting by while saving my pennies with a shavette. Soon I hope to "move on up" so to speak from my shavette to a good straight, from boar to badger, from william to ??? whatever. For now what I have is enough and its still a far better and cheeper shave than the alternative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Bottom line: we're removing hair from places where we don't want hair using a sharp piece of metal and a lubricant. (And even that is "looxury" compared to the original shavers who I'm sure used nothing more than a sharp rock or perhaps one of those Pakistani razors! :D )

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I'll take the sharp rock, please.

I agree with what the other gentlemen have said. This is the wrong crowd, for the most part, to be talking about "needs" - all you "need" is a razor, a strop, and a hone. You could get by with that and a can of barbasol, though I won't speak to the shave.

Like any other hobby, you can spend as much or as little (within reason) on straight shaving as you want. I think that in general, most of us have a few categories of things - one or more razors, one or more strops, one or more hones - the basics of "straight" shaving, and then the basics of all "wet" shaving - one or more brushes, and one or more creams or soaps. Then, a few colognes, styptic pencils, and other shaving whathaveyous.

If you stick to the "one" and don't go for the "or more", you don't need to spend a fortune to get even a great shave.

And honing services aren't anything new, nor are hones, nor are, I'm sure, men with a large number of razors.