Thoughts on just using up/down and X stroke? No circles.
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Thoughts on just using up/down and X stroke? No circles.
I think starting with circles is just quicker and easier and requires less dexterity. They are helpful but not necessary at all.
Nothing wrong doing it hat way, it is just slower.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroCool
For me I could not get circles to work at first. When I abandoned them was when I finally started to get a shave-able edge. Everyone is different and the key is finding what works for you. If you can get an edge doing circles keep at it. If not abandon and move onto something else.
I use circles when I need to speed the cutting process. I don't do it in one location on the stone. I use moderate pressure and perform small circular motions while moving from one end of the hone to the other. I must say that I rarely use such an aggressive motion except when faced with a very bad edge that needs an entirely new bevel. This means that I only use it at the lower grits of 1k and 4k.
For me, using circles depends a lot on the blade geometry. If the edge is straight or has a slight smile, then circles work great. However, a more pronounced smile makes circles less efficient. I've got one blade that has a strong smile, and circles are mostly worthless on it. It takes a rolling x-stroke to hit the entire edge.
I know some people think circles are too aggressive. I use that technique for some razors sometimes before I go to the x stroke. That and back and forth strokes. The thing is to know that it is a means of removing more metal quickly and do it with care. If you've got micro chips, or worse, or you're setting an initial bevel, it is a handy tool to have. For general honing I pretty much stick with the x stroke. OTOH, I'm not honing 20 razors a day or a week and I'm not concerned with how long it takes to get there.
You might want to check out the JaNorton thread, as there are quite a few ideas and even Vids on just about everything you can imagine...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroCool
I know for sure there is some idiot in there that did a vid using specifically no circles "At some point in time" :p
The Japanese style or BacknForth is very efficient and accurate but in newb hands it also is a fast frown maker so is the "Half Stroke" especially if you do them with your finger in the middle of the blade like many vids show.. Straight up and down the hone is also not a good idea as it also leads to frowns... :(
Try all of them but you want to master at least one of them,
I spent a lot of time browsing here in 2006. I never saw one circle then. I first saw vids of Lynn and Glen doing circles when I rejoined last year. As I understand it, Lynn started doing them a few years ago.
Michael
Lynn told me about using them a couple of months before the 2009 NC meet up,, and it was that NC meet Webcast where he showed them to everyone.. He had already tested them on 100's of razors when he explained the process to me and I started using them also, They are pretty much foolproof, but a thing to note is like posted above about smiling edges the trick is using the cricles, then blending this together with X strokes or even the Swooping X strokes..Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsorkin
The key word there is "Blending" it all together on the edge... There are other ways obviously, but the circles are fast, simple, accruate, and user friendly, so it is hard to beat them...
Ah, fond memories of honing in the BC era (Before Circles)...
And the seasons, they go round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down, we're captives on a carousel of time ..... old song by Joanie Mitchell ..... Dylan's post reminded me. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Honing using circles has been around for a long time. I can remember watching my grandfather using circles to sharpen all manner of things, razors included. I was probably about 6 or 8 then, I'm gonna be 51 this year...
Going back to 2000, there really was no information on the web about straight razor shaving, honing or even wetshaving in general. When I started the first wetshaving forum, I learned the Pyramid method on the Norton 4K/8K, which still provides a very repeatable and reliable method of honing. The only problem with it is that on some of the old dogs and wedges, it can take forever to get a razor shavable. After a few years and thousands of razors I began playing with the circles and it took those thousands of razors until I could come up with a consistent, repeatable and reliable process using them. Once I got it though, it has really proved to be a method that will work virtually every time and is easily teachable to new people. It works with a variety of hones and can be used exclusively on a lot of Natural stones after bevel setting. Once someone learns to keep the razor flat on a stone and gets comfortable with a little pressure and NO pressure, it all falls into place. The nice thing is that considering all the people around these days who came into SRP and then remembered they were honing for 20-30 years and with all the agenda driven trolls out there, this method continues to hold up.
There are a lot of CAN do methods and alternatives out there and particularly when people use narrow stones for whatever the reason may be. I just hope that people keep trying new methods and materials because that is how we all learn. And, we all learn not only from our failures, but from our successes.
Have fun.
I just looked back at this post. Maybe it's coming across as a little bit cynical? I hope not but I fear that it is. Anyway it was just an anecdote, and when I typed it I had anything but cynicism in my heart. I'm still a beginner here, and learning something every day on this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsorkin
Michael
Didn't sound cynical to me...??
Like everyone has already said, up and down can get you there. I still go back and forth in a linear fashion a lot when I hone, but there are circles and ellipses, and sometimes a corkscrew or two thrown in for good measure when necessary. When you really start to think about what honing is doing, then you'll see it is not the razor that gets sharper, it is your whiskers that get coarser.... :D (nah, not really. The razor gets sharper...)
James.
Didn't sound cynical to me either.
Actually, there were very few video's back in 2006 and most were of people shaving. In the last several years we have seen an explosion of videos much like the explosion in population we have had. YouTube has enlightened millions and had a very positive effect on us.
Have fun.
I'm one of those "set in their ways" x stroke honers. Of course the only reason I don't use them is that I don't hone enough razors in general to gain competance with the circles over the x stroke. I'm sure that if I honed more than 1 or 2 per month i'd much appreciate doing circles on the hones.
All good info!
I'll keep at the circles and various other techniques to see what works for me.
Until then, I'll keep sending my "worthy" restores off to the pros :)
Grinding metal is grinding metal. Like the other guys have said using a circular stroke is just one more tool in the honing kit. Preferences differ but experts like Lynn make it all look easy.
It's fun and interesting to watch the evolution of methods as we rediscover an art that was relatively common knowledge a few generations ago.
Like everything else, there has been a huge loss of knowledge that we constantly "rediscover". Example of the Romans having concrete and didn't get rediscovered until 500 years later. I try to learn something new everyday. It is too easy to get set in your ways and not open to change.
However circles got started Lynn was the first the I saw on You-Tube and it has really been a great tool in the honing arsenal for me.
Take Care,
Richard
+1, that video is priceless. Once Dylan demonstrated it at the first NY/NJ meet, that put it all together for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by riooso
and performed very well by Tom Rush. had the pleasure of hearing him sing it twice in small local coffeehouses.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD