Advice with King Japanese water stones

Hey guys. Today I purchased a set of three stones of the king brand in 1000 4000 and 8000. I am looking for any advice one might be able to give me in honeing, I am currently having issues with honeing my first blade. Here is what I have done so far;
-Bread-knifed my razor edge to set a fresh bevel and to remove a pin hole corroded through the blade
- a series of X strokes in different blade positions as well as circles to set a bevel(accomplished)
-same types of strokes on my 4k to sharpen, shaves arm hair at skin level.
-Will not pop hairs above skin and will not pass a proper HHT. Passes both the thumb nail test and the thump pad test so I know I have a keen bevel, but I honestly cannot get the razor sharper with the 4k. The blade has a slight bend in it but this I do not think is the issue. Do I muscle on through forever with the 4k? Move up to my 8k? Or go back to the 1k and start over. Any advice would help me so much thank you gents!

have you tried to shave with the razor? HHT means nothing some razor pass it some not , those that doe not pass still can shave great.
If you did tnt after the 8k, you will need to rehone from 4k up as the edge is probably ruined.

I have not moved up to my 8k, but thank you for the reassurance about the hht :)

I would also try it out as a quick shaver. HHT isn't always everything from what I have read. either way, keep posted and let us know how the battle goes!

I finished with the 8k this morning and polished it up a bit more with light strokes on my barber stone(I actually have no idea what type of stone it is, but it cuts finer than my king 8k) I'll shave test it tonight, it is grabbing in the HHT in some spots on the blade, so in hopeful

Good news gents, my son decided to sleep this morning after a persuading car ride, so I got to shave this morning too!
Here is how my test shave went;
110 linen, 120 red imp 700c, 120 horse hide.
3 full face passes, WTG XTG ATG.
Result was BBS with little if any irritation. This was a most peculiar shave for me today, I almost always have some irritation on my jaw line of my dominant hand, my beard grows weird there. The razor tugged a fair amount at first, though this could be because I had a 3 days growth(though my beard is rather fair) I almost always have a hard time with that one place on my jaw, but today seemed easier and like I said, no irritation or nicks. I am debating going back on my barber stone a little more, but I think my first honeing was a success! What do you guys think?

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Here are my stones, my first set of hones! And some close ups of my blade edge :)
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Attachment 96446Attachment 96447

Holy smokes, that's a lot of stropping. Glad it worked out for you, but you might want to try it without so much, unless thats what you normally do. BTW, what is the fourth stone, on the right?

Oh, nevermind; that's one big barber hone.

Very nice set up. Use in good health.

I only strop that much when I come off of a hone, but perhaps it is extreme. My normal strip regiment is 10-20 linen and 50-60 leather. And yeah I have no idea what kind of stone it is, but it seems to work. I think it is an oil stone, it is covered in gunk minus the face, and if I dunk it in water it leaves a slight film on the water. I have scrubbed the stone a few times with water soap and a brush, but it still has a slight oily surface and smell. I never use it wet only dry.

Oh and fellow newbies looking to start a honeing system, these three stones including the nagura block cost me $133 at Lee Valley. The 8k was most expensive at $60, so if you are on a strict budget, these were the right price for me!

My only suggestion is drop the unknown stone out of the equation and work the King 8k more, check the JaNorton thread for some tricks on the last finishing strokes to get the most out of it.. The tricks that work on the 8k Norton should transfer to the 8k King...

Maybe one of the Canadian members is close to you and can take a look at the unknown and give you an idea of what it really is :)
If not you could get some good all around pics of it and maybe someone on here can take a stab at what it is

Sounds like you got a good start on honing though

I have the same king stone 8000grit, I'm a traditaional woodworker and also use one for all of my plane irons chisles and such. I've used the nagura in both woodworking and razors and I'm just not a big fan , the stone does just fine without it . I don't even need to flatten the stone that often and really don't need alot of water ether. But for the value the king stone is the way to go. Best of Luck with that edge and your stones.

Glad to hear your honing went well. I am also using a King set-up from Lee Valley. A combo 1000/4000 and the 8000. I am a begginer and bought a razor from whipped dog to guage my honing. I have yet to get my edge to shave as close as Lynn's razor does. I am just guessing that barber hone made the difference in your honing. I have been thinking about pucking up a Naniwa 12000 to get a finer polish. What I noticed with the King stones (with my minimal experience) is they respond better to standard hone rotation, low grit to high. The pyramid technique doesn't work as well on these stones. And remember I am a beginner. I get a good shave out of these hones, but it takes three passes to do what what Lynn's razor does in two, and with less irritation. Im glad you started this thread, I was almost starting to think I made a bad choice getting the King hones.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeyBoy

Glad to hear your honing went well. I am also using a King set-up from Lee Valley. A combo 1000/4000 and the 8000. I am a begginer and bought a razor from whipped dog to guage my honing. I have yet to get my edge to shave as close as Lynn's razor does. I am just guessing that barber hone made the difference in your honing. I have been thinking about pucking up a Naniwa 12000 to get a finer polish. What I noticed with the King stones (with my minimal experience) is they respond better to standard hone rotation, low grit to high. The pyramid technique doesn't work as well on these stones. And remember I am a beginner. I get a good shave out of these hones, but it takes three passes to do what what Lynn's razor does in two, and with less irritation. Im glad you started this thread, I was almost starting to think I made a bad choice getting the King hones.

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You shouldn't need the 12 k to get an excellent shaving edge the 8 k should be giving you that. A 12k will only give slightly better edge then the 8 k. If your not maxing out the 8 k the 12k won't really help.

For the pyramid system your going to need to increase the number of laps some. The king stones cut slightly slower then the Norton's.

Thanks for the feedback, I should also note I am not using a slurry stone.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeyBoy

Thanks for the feedback, I should also note I am not using a slurry stone.

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I used King stones for 30 years w/o a nagura. Got a nagura last Christmas and have been using it since. Honestly, I cannot tell the difference in the edges. The slurry comes faster with the nagura and I guess that is a good thing.

I humbly beseech the masters to enlighten us. Does the nagura slurry start polishing the edge faster, sharper or both?


Dave

I've been using a king combo 1k/6k for the past 3 or 4 years, I started off using a synthetic nagura quite a bit for the first year or so, I think it's rated an 8k, but it works fine without it. These days I keep a phig/chug slurry stone closeby and find that's more useful, on the 1k it draws up a 1k slurry from the stone and speeds things up if needed and on the 6k it can be used to quickly freshen/clean up the surface during honing.

After spending a lot of time submerged, I'd estimate a total of a few months, the 6k side of my combo has started to develop cracks, I can still hone on it but I get the feeling it's dying. I had a look around the interwebs and found some info from King saying only the 1k should be soaked and higher grits should be splash and go as soaking may lead to cracking, which may be something to bear in mind.

Just the fact of knowing the King stones are slow cutters makes a significant difference. I spent my evening yesterday on the 8k only and had pleasant results. I got a nice grabby TPT and a much nicer mirror finish. All those strokes are really building up my consistency. I lapped on DMT at the start and once in the middle of the honing session. I liked the shave, and I am going to work on the 8k a little more today and see if I get better results.

try getting a sharpening DVD, Murray Carter has a very detailed video on sharpening

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Originally Posted by dedox

try getting a sharpening DVD, Murray Carter has a very detailed video on sharpening

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When it comes to razors, you will do better here. Plenty of vids, a leading wiki and more people to help you than you can shake a stick at.

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Originally Posted by Proinsias

I had a look around the interwebs and found some info from King saying only the 1k should be soaked and higher grits should be splash and go as soaking may lead to cracking, which may be something to bear in mind.

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That's good to know. Thanks for heads up...

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Originally Posted by GeorgeyBoy

Just the fact of knowing the King stones are slow cutters makes a significant difference.

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My king 1000/6000 isn't a slow cutter. In fact, the slurry immediately starts turning grey. The stone is only as slow or fast relative to type of steel you're using. Some steel is slower on a king; some steel is fast...thus is the situation with every stone. In my case it's using Aogami #2. I find the stone to be slower with Henckel steel, for example.

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Originally Posted by desol

My king 1000/6000 isn't a slow cutter. In fact, the slurry immediately starts turning grey. The stone is only as slow or fast relative to type of steel you're using. Some steel is slower on a king; some steel is fast...thus is the situation with every stone. In my case it's using Aogami #2. I find the stone to be slower with Henckel steel, for example.

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I find Kings plenty fast on knives even stainless but not razors so much. I think Kings have a rep as slow cutters here because of the light pressure used on razors compared to knives.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I find Kings plenty fast on knives even stainless but not razors so much. I think Kings have a rep as slow cutters here because of the light pressure used on razors compared to knives.

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Hmph...interesting.

:rofl2:

:mad:



....:confused:

That's not fair. You can't create a post then delete it and recreate it underneath the post in reference to it.

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Originally Posted by dedox

try getting a sharpening DVD, Murray Carter has a very detailed video on sharpening

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I find Kings plenty fast on knives even stainless but not razors so much. I think Kings have a rep as slow cutters here because of the light pressure used on razors compared to knives.

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Originally Posted by desol

Hmph...interesting.

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There now I did it right

Those posts go together way too well :)

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Originally Posted by desol

:rofl2:

:mad:



....:confused:

That's not fair. You can't create a post then delete it and recreate it underneath the post in reference to it.

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Sure he can...it's called an amendment

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Originally Posted by desol

oH YEAH? How about this?

Edmontonians are Calgarian wannabe's?

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Always good to have dreams I guess. To each their own.

Oops. I decided to ammend my post...

But i was flamboozled by your quotation...arggg :D