honing?

Hi all,

I have shaved with a straight razor for years, though it uses disposable blades.
I also have an old fashioned one from solingen, but I have never had a really good shave with it.

Probably this is because it is dull, even though it was sold as being ready to shave. It is certainly much duller than the disposables in my other straight.
Still, lately I have been wanting to swith to the real straight, and I am trying to get it honed.

I have a paddle strop that is plain leather on one side, and has a brown-reddish paste on the other side.

I have always thought that the side with the paste on it is for sharpening it when it gets dull. however, from what I read one this site I also need a 4K/8K stone to sharpen it?
Btw, Is it possible to make it as sharp as a disposable blade, using a stone like that, or do I need something else as well?

Thanks.

Bruno,

You'll never be able to get a traditional straight blade as sharp as a disposable, although I think they can come close with a lot of practice.

You will need some kind of hone to get your blade up to snuff. Most of us use a Norton 4000/8000 grit waterstone, which goes for $70 to $90. It'll last you the rest of your life if properly cared for.

The paddle strop and paste you describe are used for minor touch-ups on a well-honed blade. So if you try to sharpen only with the paste, you'll probably spend about three weeks trying and then get frustrated.

Read through the help files here; there's tons of great info about honing. We're glad to answer any questions you might have.

Good luck,
Josh

Welcome aboard Bruno. You got some good advice from Josh. The most common way to go about it is to hone it with a Norton 4/8k and then either use a fine finishing hone or a paddle strop with abrasive pastes to give the blade an extra polish. It will never be as sharp as an AC but it will give you BBS shaves anyways.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Another question:
What is slurry, and do I need it?
It is mentioned in several threads I've read so far.

Slurry is just the mud formed when some of the stones surface breaks away from it during honing. Since it comprises broken down abrasive, its grit will be higher (finer) than the stone from which it came. This means you can get a finer polish from the slurry than you would if you rinsed it from the surface of the stone.

Sometimes a small piece of fine abrasive is used to build up slurry before honing. This is called a nagura.

Some very hard stones do not break down much and so will not really produce their own slurry. Again a nagura can be useful to build some up on these stones.

I did some more reading, through lynn's tips as well, and several people indicate that they use a japanese or belgian waterstone (coticule??) after using the 4/8.

Is this something I should do as well?

I'm trying to find a balance between spending lots of money and getting a smooth shave.

the coticule is just another step in the process they are using as a refining tool. the 4k and 8k produce a bevel and start to finish the edge. some people stop here as they like that feel. most i'd say continue on to use a higher grit tool to produce a more polished, more sharp edge. these can be many types of finishing hones (coticule, there are chinese/japanese 12k or 15k grit stones, there are many finishing hone listed over at www.redtrader99.com that people use, also some people use a pasted paddle strop from tony miller). its whatever you feel like using.

one thing i think people overlook is that when you buy this hone you are going to have it forever. you will use it often and it will last longer then you are alive. so don't put too much stress on the price as the longevity is superb. coticules are expensive but many people swear by them. you can get hones for much cheaper that could work just as well or perhaps not as well.

i use a norton combo 4k/8k ..and then a chinese 12k. the chinese 12k works well but works very slowly.

so it would probably be a good idea to buy some kind of finishing product (hone or pasted paddle) to use on your razor as an extra polishing step to refine the blade. some people will say you don't need the extra step however many others would suggest it. try it without and if you aren't satisfied then pick up higher grit hone.

~J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jscott

so it would probably be a good idea to buy some kind of finishing product (hone or pasted paddle) to use on your razor as an extra polishing step to refine the blade. some people will say you don't need the extra step however many others would suggest it. try it without and if you aren't satisfied then pick up higher grit hone.

~J

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I do have a paddle strop that is leather on one side, and reddish paste on the other.
So basically, with that and the 4/8 combo I should be able to put a high quality edge on my razor (given practise of course), correct?

just to make sure, when I use the paste side of the strop, the edge of the razor is pointing away from the direction of the movement, whereas when using a stone the edge is pointing to the direction of the movement.
Right?

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just to make sure, when I use the paste side of the strop, the edge of the razor is pointing away from the direction of the movement, whereas when using a stone the edge is pointing to the direction of the movement.
Right?

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that is correct. edge leading for hones... spine leading for strops

do you know what kind of paste you have on your strop?

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Originally Posted by jscott

that is correct. edge leading for hones... spine leading for strops

do you know what kind of paste you have on your strop?

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The strop looks exactly like this one (same brand, same look):
http://www.shavingshop.com/index.php...6category%3D37

but with red paste instead. I don't have any more information about it, since I bought it in a shop several years ago.

Btw, if I buy the norton 4/8, do I need a flattening stone as well, or is that not necessary?

1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a glass or a smooth granite plate is good enough to lap your Norton and you can also use it to quickly establish a bevel on a really dull blade.

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a glass or a smooth granite plate is good enough to lap your Norton and you can also use it to quickly establish a bevel on a really dull blade.

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Thanks.
I think I am going to buy this one:
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...944/196094.htm

The width is 3 inches. Is that OK?
And is classicshaving a good place to buy?

That's the one I also use. It gets new blades honed quickly and easily. I may get a 2" one as well for touchups. Classicshaving has a stellar reputation but be wary of their shipping costs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

That's the one I also use. It gets new blades honed quickly and easily. I may get a 2" one as well for touchups. Classicshaving has a stellar reputation but be wary of their shipping costs.

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I just found out :-)
I found a couple of links in another thread in this forum that sell them in the UK. I'll check what they charge for shipping. Might save money even if they are a bit more expensive.

By now I am starting to think that lynn's DVD is vital for newbies.
Where can I get it?
I searched for DVD with the search function but that didn't turn up anything.
Should I perhaps buy a second cheaper razor as well to practise with?

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=7412

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Originally Posted by 520dvx

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=7412

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Wow.
Any quicker and I would have had the answer before I sent the question.
This forum really lives.

Bruno,

You may also want a bench mark before you start honing yourself. Why don't you send the razor to Lynn in the first instance for honing so you will know how sharp a conventional straight can and should be.
Then buy a cheapo blade to practice on as it will be a fair while before your good razor has to get near a hone again.

Gary

The absolute best things you can do:

1. Buy Lynn's DVD, it will answer 90% of your questions
2. Send your razor to one of us for honing. Then you will know what sharp really is.
3. Buy a razor to practice honing with. Don't mess up your good razor. I ruined my grandfathers razor by practicing.
4. Purchase some 0.5 micron abrasive paste to use on your paddle strop and then use that after the 8k Norton.
5. Remove the old abrasive paste from the paddle strop. It is to coarse to use after the 8K Norton.
6. Be patient.
7. Post here often!:) Questions are always welcome. Thats why we are here.


Just my two cents,:)

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

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5. Remove the old abrasive paste from the paddle strop. It is to coarse to use after the 8K Norton.

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Make sure you use a good saddle soap or tack cleaner to do this safely for your strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

The absolute best things you can do:

1. Buy Lynn's DVD, it will answer 90% of your questions
2. Send your razor to one of us for honing. Then you will know what sharp really is.
3. Buy a razor to practice honing with. Don't mess up your good razor. I ruined my grandfathers razor by practicing.
4. Purchase some 0.5 micron abrasive paste to use on your paddle strop and then use that after the 8k Norton.
5. Remove the old abrasive paste from the paddle strop. It is to coarse to use after the 8K Norton.
6. Be patient.
7. Post here often!:) Questions are always welcome. Thats why we are here.

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Hi;

I have already contacted lynn for the DVD and to buy a sharpened razor. that way I have a reference for 'sharp' as well as a second razor.
I am going to use my own razor for practising. I have registered for a razor sharpening course in 2 weeks, that should keep me from ruining it. There I can also buy a good stone and the 0.5 paste

sending my own razor would quickly become an expensive matter due to the shipping fees involved.

And I promise I will post here whenever I am uncertain about something ;-)

Razor sharpening course? Where? At AOS? I don't know if they can do as well better than Randy, Lynn or Joe. SRP, the dvd and a benchmark should be all you need.

you should sign up for a razor honing class from Randydance here. if u use skype then great.. but if you just call him up and sit down with your hone..he'll talk you though it.

i did that when i first started out and couldn't get my razors sharp after days and days and days of trying each night. picked up a bunch of great points from him which i would never had figured out or would have been too scared to do on my own.

~J

ps. use the X pattern even if your hones are big enough to hone straight :) much easier to keep the pressure distribution even that way which leads to even sharpening across the entire blade ..... i know i know thats just my opinion

I've been using X for fine work and straight across for establishing the bevels. Skyping with Randy will definitely beat any course they can offer you.

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Razor sharpening course? Where? At AOS? I don't know if they can do as well better than Randy, Lynn or Joe. SRP, the dvd and a benchmark should be all you need.

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The Koordenwinkel where they do this course also sells stones, soap, razors, straps and other things to do with shaving. see http://www.shaving-and-razor-shop.com/
Buying a stone there is a lot cheaper (they use belgian yellow) than via the internet.

The 2 hour course only costs 15 euro, and I have to get my stone somewhere anyways, so I might as well do that and follow the course at the same time.

That and the DVD, one of lynn's razors and the SRP should give me a foundation to build on.

15EUR is fairly reasonable so you won't be losing much and the coticule is good for maintaining an already sharp edge if you get your hands on a good piece. I got a bad one so I had to resort to making a bench hone for my fine finishing work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

15EUR is fairly reasonable so you won't be losing much and the coticule is good for maintaining an already sharp edge if you get your hands on a good piece. I got a bad one so I had to resort to making a bench hone for my fine finishing work.

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One of the main reasons I registered for the course is that I am a complete newbie to honing. I don't expect to be able to put a good edge on a razor after a mere two hours, but at least I will know enough to be able to ask specific questions here, rather than blundering about from one question to the next.

You have to start somewhere, and that is as good an approach as any.

Good attitude. That will make the Skype session with Randy even more profitable. I just dived into it and then got a lesson from X who used to live in Toronto (thanks X).

Call me anytime!:)

I've said it once, I'll say it again, GO FOR IT. Randy is one of the top 3 influences on my honing experience and the person responsible for getting it up to a new level. You'd be a fool not to benefit from his generosity.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Call me anytime!:)

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I will do so after Dec 1st :-)
Thanks.