hone a blunt razor - advice needed.

Hey guys, I need some advice on the next stone i should look to purchase to help me with my honing.

I already own a C12k and a BBW for some touch up honing and they work really well, Ive managed to keep my two razors sharp enough to shave with for over a year now.

However I recently picked up a razor from ebay that is so blunt its not funny, I know that both the stones I have aren't really going to cut it in terms of putting an edge on the razor to start with however Im not sure if I should purchase a 1000k or a 3000k ??

Ive been looking at the superstones that are available on TheInvisibleEdge.co.uk, they aren't exactly cheap so I'd prefer to get one that is going to help me get a blunt blade ready to use with my btw and C12k ?

thanks for the advice.

Kris

A 1k stone will set a bevel much faster than a 3k stone, so that is the one that is commonly used. I love my Chosera 1k stone. Good luck! :)

for setting a bevel there's nothing wrong with using something in the 600 grit range. I've actually whipped out stones that most people would consider too coarse for a slurry stone, but to me, there's no point piddling around with a fine grit stone for establishing a bevel. I think more "honing failures" are a result of using too fine a stone to set the bevel than anything else. Even a 1k stone could require many hundreds of strokes to bring a blunt edge to a new bevel, especially if the razor isn't a full hollow with a very thin blade. I'll even go out on a limb and recommend a 600 grit (red) DMT hone. I've been known to whip out one of the blue 320 grit stones for bevel setting, myself. ;)

A 1k hone is a good starting point for setting an edge. Usually fast enough and not too coarse. If you need faster, go coarser.

Like PapaBull, I often use DMT 600 for a starting point.

A DMT can be used (and I've used a DMT 325 to rough out a bevel a time or two), but it'll be a big jump from one of those to either of the other stones you have. My advice would be to get a 1k stone along with an artificial nagura to use to set bevels.

I've finally been able to get good results with my own honing. I have 5 razors now that I've honed myself to a comfortable (for me) edge. I picked up a 1k Chosera and absolutely love it. One of the five was just done today. I went from the Chosera to the BBW and then to the Norton 8K, then I finished with CrOx. It was a very nice edge, maybe one of my best yet. Not that I'm a pro yet, by any stretch of the imagination, just wanted to chime in that I think the 1K is the way to go. Sorry it took so long to get there. LOL

I agree with Cove! A Chosera 1k is my stone of choice for setting the bevel and if I could only own 2 stones the Chosera 1k would be one of them. The edge from the Chosera 1k, IME, is almost, or is equivalent to a 4k edge from most other stones. It's a hone not to be overlooked in your arsenal!! Of course, IMHO.

Regards,

Howard

I've done what myersn suggests before. I don't have the patience to hone for long so if necessary, I do a quick rough in on a DMT 325 and move to 1-4-8k. 10-15 minutes tops to 8k is my acceptable range. Definately 1k.

Thanks for all the support guys to be honest I'm after a stone that will be fairly forgiving for a newbie honer, I'd prefer not to go too course if I can to avoid doing too much damage if I get a little crazy with it, I think I'll put the money on a 1k Naniwa and a nagura stone to keep it maintained.

I'm looking for it to primarily be there to help me set a new bevel when needed and to start an edge off , I've bought a couple razors lately that are incredibly blunt, it's difficult to describe but I'm easily comfortable running my thumb or finger across the edge with pressure and it not harming my digits :). Now todo that on my normal razors would no doubt leave a wound that needed stitching. This is how blunt they are.

I'm able to maintain an edge on a razor when it's sharpened, but I'm having to ship the really blunt razors off to have them sharpened at present, so if I can get a stone that will start the edge and I can finish it with the bbw and C12k I'd be happy.

Something I'd forgot to mention in the original post was cost is a little restricting, so whilst I'd go with the suggestion of the chosera normally it's a little out of my budget.

I've been reading the info on theinvisibleedge and I'm in two minds if I should get a 1k or a 3k stone? I get the feeling it should be the 1k as this will give me the quickest results and is going to be the best at setting a bevel, but I like the idea of the 3k being able todo the bevel set albeit slower and also able to start an edge off which is closer to the grit of the two stones I already have. Any opinions ?

You can't go wrong with having a 1K stone
If you need more speed, these work really well Fine Bench Sharpener by Smith Abrasives, Inc. DBSF 00027925012734, the orange one is 850 and very fast

OK people. Can I use the flat rock or concrete in my driveway? Sure. But if you do there is the trade off of scatching the sh*t out of the rest of the blade due to the swarf coming off the low grit stones.
First thing you need to ask is if it is a hollow ground blade. If so then a 1K willl not take long to put a bevel on it. If it does you are doing something wrong. Watch Lynn do his circles, or Glen (at this point in time) videos. Practice. If it is a wedge then guess what, it's going to take time. There is a point where there is such a thing as too fast.
You don't want to use an automatic knife sharpener for a reason. Take your time, learn when and how to use presure with the different grits.
I have my 220/1K and 4K/8K norton's then my 12K Naniwa followed by a 16K shapton. The 220K is only used on knives or extreme instances(I have approx 160ish in rotation and have only used it three or four times) I also use CrOx on balsa and felt for some blades. As Lynn says... Have fun.

Paul

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

OK people. Can I use the flat rock or concrete in my driveway? Sure. But if you do there is the trade off of scatching the sh*t out of the rest of the blade due to the swarf coming off the low grit stones. First thing you need to ask is if it is a hollow ground blade. If so then a 1K willl not take long to put a bevel on it. If it does you are doing something wrong. Watch Lynn do his circles, or Glen (at this point in time) videos. Practice. If it is a wedge then guess what, it's going to take time. There is a point where there is such a thing as too fast. You don't want to use an automatic knife sharpener for a reason. Take your time, learn when and how to use presure with the different grits. I have my 220/1K and 4K/8K norton's then my 12K Naniwa followed by a 16K shapton. The 220K is only used on knives or extreme instances(I have approx 160ish in rotation and have only used it three or four times) I also use CrOx on balsa and felt for some blades. As Lynn says... Have fun.Paul

---

+1. I only go lower than my King 800 for large chips and one particular wedge that came to me so breadknifed that it could stand by itself on it's edge.

Honestly I like to differentiate between Honing and Restoration at the 1k level if I have to drop lower than that to me that falls under Restoration...

I know it is semantics but it helps make it a bit more clear to new honers... JMHO of course

ps: If cost is a concern then the King 1k is your stone, in fact I used it in many of my vids just for that reason, it works and works very well and is the cheapest 1k stone I own...

Somewhere on here I did a thread comparing bevel setters will try and find it for you

g

Bingo: http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...l-setting.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krisdavie

However I recently picked up a razor from ebay that is so blunt its not funny

---

That could easily fall under the 'restoration' category. Depends on the steel too. I started a Bengall I recently restored on the Shapton Pro 320. The edge was a shocker. If you need to remove rust, chips & a lot of metal, 1k can be a bit lightweight tho it will do the job. Could I have used the 1k ? Sure. It can simply come down to time constraints & how extreme the repair is..
A 320 can be destructive in the wrong hands but hours on a 1k can equal a lot of miscued strokes. Each option requires care. A light hand with the 320 & maybe some coffee breaks with a 1k & dare I say it ? ~ a taped spine. :)

If you're only using a BBW & C12k atm a 1k seems a good choice & a more evenly spaced progression.

Not meaning to be sarcastic or anything but if a Chosera and 3k are out of your budget then one option would be to save up for them. The most cost effective system I've seen from bevel setting to shaving was a 3k stone and CrOx on a loom strop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

That could easily fall under the 'restoration' category. Depends on the steel too. I started a Bengall I recently restored on the Shapton Pro 320. The edge was a shocker. If you need to remove rust, chips & a lot of metal, 1k can be a bit lightweight tho it will do the job. Could I have used the 1k ? Sure. It can simply come down to time constraints & how extreme the repair is..
A 320 can be destructive in the wrong hands but hours on a 1k can equal a lot of miscued strokes. Each option requires care. A light hand with the 320 & maybe some coffee breaks with a 1k & dare I say it ? ~ a taped spine. :)

If you're only using a BBW & C12k atm a 1k seems a good choice & a more evenly spaced progression.

---

The "incredibly dull" thing got me, too. When I can't feel anything that resembles an edge with the ball of my thumb I know I'm going to run out of patience a long time before I'll get an edge on a razor with even a 1K if it's really good steel and/or anything but the thinnest full hollow blades. But str8shooter does have a point about scratching blades with low grit stones. If you're not careful, one stroke off the side of the stone or too much pressure and a blade flex can add a spiderweb to the blade. If it's a collectible worth hundreds, that would be something I'd take into consideration. If it's an ebay special, with a lot worse than spider webs on it already, that, too, is something I would take into consideration. I guess in the long run, experience has a lot to do with stone choices. Using finer stones keeps it simple. But I think it also results in some frustration as it can take a beginner a lot of time to finally get a bevel on a particularly stubborn blade and I think a lot of guys might be tempted to give up without ever getting a new fresh bevel, thinking they just don't have the technique required to hone a razor properly.

The best advice I can give at this point to any beginner is to think of honing like sanding wood. You don't use a fine sandpaper to shape wood and you don't use a coarse sandpaper to finish wood. You use the right grit sandpaper for the stage of the sanding project if you want to get it done best. You could, theoretically rough sand a board with 800 grit sandpaper if you have enough patience, but..... really it's better to get it shaped and smoothed with something better suited to that than fine sandpaper. Like most things in life, experience is probably the best teacher and advice... well, it's mostly good for giving people ideas about what to try as they gain their experience.

p.s. I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I hate using anything but the most effective stone for bevel setting is that I hone a whole lot of razors and there's hone maintenance and replacement that I have to keep in mind. Even diamonds go dull and other sorts of stones need flattened and, themselves, have "material removed", so to speak. And that's something that most people really wouldn't have to think about or consider.

If cost is a factor, you may consider a Norton 4/8k stone. You can set a bevel on a 4k in a short amount of time, then proceed through a progression, and finish with your 12k. I did exactly that with a razor I purchased from ebay that was a dull as a butter knife, and it is now my best and most comfortable shaver. It took less than 15 minutes to set the bevel. gssixgun has a video somewhere where he sets a bevel on a Norton 4k that was very helpful to me. Maybe he can direct you to that video. It's really not that difficult. Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krisdavie

Hey guys, I need some advice on the next stone i should look to purchase to help me with my honing.

I already own a C12k and a BBW for some touch up honing and they work really well, Ive managed to keep my two razors sharp enough to shave with for over a year now.

However I recently picked up a razor from ebay that is so blunt its not funny, I know that both the stones I have aren't really going to cut it in terms of putting an edge on the razor to start with however Im not sure if I should purchase a 1000k or a 3000k ??


Ive been looking at the superstones that are available on TheInvisibleEdge.co.uk, they aren't exactly cheap so I'd prefer to get one that is going to help me get a blunt blade ready to use with my btw and C12k ?

thanks for the advice.

Kris

---

1000 range stone or a DMT would work, you will also need something for the gap between that and the C12K. I have and use coti's, but I have not used the BBW side of one, should work with thick enough slurry, but not sure how long it would take.

Hmmm.... for years I used wet/dry sandpaper for exactly the type of edges you are describing and it works very well and very fast plus the cost is low.

Just cut the sandpaper to fit on top of a hone, wet it, and start honing using some pressure. Be sure to apply torque to the edge.
It can be a pain to learn at first but the only hone that is faster is a DMT.
I suggest using a 500/600 grit for the really dull/rusted edges then switch to the 1000 grit after the nicks/rust/old steel are gone.
Purchase 3 sheets of each and that should be good for 2-3 razors.

BTW, I own and have used most of the 1K hones and the sandpaper is still my fallback method.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Hmmm.... for years I used wet/dry sandpaper for exactly the type of edges you are describing and it works very well and very fast plus the cost is low.

Just cut the sandpaper to fit on top of a hone, wet it, and start honing using some pressure. Be sure to apply torque to the edge.
It can be a pain to learn at first but the only hone that is faster is a DMT.
I suggest using a 500/600 grit for the really dull/rusted edges then switch to the 1000 grit after the nicks/rust/old steel are gone.
Purchase 3 sheets of each and that should be good for 2-3 razors.

BTW, I own and have used most of the 1K hones and the sandpaper is still my fallback method.

---

Good quality sandpaper is a very viable and effective option. Good on you to mention it. I used to do that a lot until I started honing so many razors that I just got some DMT's. I probably have about 8 DMT stones and probably should order a couple more. They wear out, too. For casual honing a few razors, I think the option of using sandpaper is an excellent one and one that I think is overlooked too often. Good call.

For what you have and are using I will say send out that new razor to get honed professionally and don't worry about buying any more stones right now. You'll have what you need to maintain the edges for a very long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickboone

For what you have and are using I will say send out that new razor to get honed professionally and don't worry about buying any more stones right now. You'll have what you need to maintain the edges for a very long time.

---

If you are not planning on purchasing anymore razors and do not have a burning desire to learn honing then this is the best advice. It saves you a bunch of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myersn024

A DMT can be used (and I've used a DMT 325 to rough out a bevel a time or two), but it'll be a big jump from one of those to either of the other stones you have. My advice would be to get a 1k stone along with an artificial nagura to use to set bevels.

---

I use a 1200 DMT to do a fix and set a bevel that need a lot of work (more than a 1k) This will remove more metal than the 500 stone and leave a 1200 finish for you to work with. Lynn A. also uses this method.
Stingray

Thanks for the advice on this guys it's appreciated, against some of the advice I decided to get a 1k stone as I have a few cheap chinese razors around that I'm willing to sacrifice to it in the process of learning to hone. My reason for the stone is that whilst I'm more than happy to send the blunt ones out for a honing I would like to be able to go from start to finish restoration without having to send the razor out to have sharpened. Just for my own sense of satisfaction and to say "I did that and I'm proud :)"

Back when I started this I did just that. Working on cheap gold dollar crap razors perfecting my stroke. Helped out a lot and prob saved some good razors from unneeded carnage.