I procured a black arky benchstone, and I'm tearing through some 3M 220 wetordry trying to get this thing flat. Any suggestions?
Printable View
I procured a black arky benchstone, and I'm tearing through some 3M 220 wetordry trying to get this thing flat. Any suggestions?
The last two arkies I bought(both translucents), I resorted to using my 4x36 belt sander with a 50 grit belt.:rofl2: After that it was a breeze smoothing them out and burnishing them.
Okay, any suggestions that don't require me to purchase pricey equipment?
Elbow grease and an extra course DMT. Still costs money, but not nearly what a belt sander would cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
I'm trying to lap one right now myself. Tedious.
to prep a hard or translucent/surgical black i lap them with a 325 dmt(use water) after that i use a 3x1 translucent pocket stone to rub down the stone to smooth it over(use oil ) for the last step i use a steel block(or a knife ) and rub the stone until there is swarf all over the stone(use oil) i repete this three times to get the broken in feel after this process the stone should have a smooth reflective surface and will deliver the best results thats with in your stone ability.
Will the DMT work substantially faster than 220 sandpaper?
The dmt may make it go faster but will still take time. The dmt is nice cause you don't risk getting grit embedded in a hone and you don't have to keep on stopping to replace the sand paper. Also you can use it on any other hones you have.
One other option I resorted to was a palm sander with wet/dry paper. Just make sure you keep it moving once you put it on the hone. You will have to stop often and replace the paper though.
Ps: for what you will probably end up paying for paper you could come close to getting the dmt.
I know this sounds pretty far out, but if it's pretty far out of whack, and it's a surgical black, it's going to take a TON of effort and time. I recently did what we think is a black ark, and I had to use a belt sander. Even with the belt sander, I spent a few sheets of paper getting it decent enough to use. Mine wasn't even dipped btw. I think it's never been used. I'd resort to pricey equipment. Honestly, after you have it, you'll find all sorts of ways it's handy to have around. At least mine has become just about my favorite tool to use. Fixes everything it seems. :)
Fastest method I've used is SiC powder slurry on glass. It's also the messiest method I've used. 80 grit is very aggressive & a good starting point but you can get coarser if you think it's needed, then progress to whatever you like to finish on. A belt sander sounds ideal tho if the stone is really dished.
I don't think there's huge risk of embedding grit in a black ark. :)
And here is another approach:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...one-video.html
Very true if you embed grit in a black Arkie you have really accomplished something. :)
I was more thinking of other hones when I made that comment. cause we all know there is always one more hone to get.
I lapped a translucent Arkie with sandpaper and a DMT 325 and it took forever; luckily it wasn't too far out to begin with. If I had it all to do over again, I'd use a belt sander.
Depends on how much lapping your going to do beyond that stone. I bought a DMT XX 120, it'll do the job, but how often are you going to use it. DMT also just came out with a plate strictly for lapping...
The Surg.Blacks are hard. Personally, I don't like them for straights, I have two I use for knives. I'm not sure where you are, but there might be someone nearby, another member perhaps that can help you out...?
Has anyone ever tried using a "barber hone" to lap their stones? I ask as sadly, my little stone (pictured) made short work of my Naniwa lapping stone in no time at all when I tried to round the edges... sigh.
Hence, I used it to start the lapping process on my C12K and it worked wonders (finished it with a DMT). Haven't tryed it on a Ark - might work though?
Attachment 98985
What's the process for lapping one with a belt sander? I just found out that I may have access to one, but I've never used a belt sander before...
I assume you don't have a dmt 8c. It takes a while but it will get you there. I finished it with a shapton glass lapping plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
Honestly I only use sandpaper if the stone is way off being flap. I have never attained a flat serface using sandpaper,Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
even on a granet serface.
stingray
A barber hone alone is too small to give a flat surface. The DMT was crucial.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Surg Black Arks can eat a DMT for breakfast, and then chow down 3M 200 by the boxful.
Try less expensive sandpaper in the 300x range. I don't know why, but sometimes a cheaper paper rated with a higher grit will cut faster.
I made good headway with some no-name 320-380x paper I got on Ebay.
You may not have to buy a sander. Your local hardware store my rent them by the hour or a equipment rental place would be my second choice. But you not only not have to buy but they'll give you instructions on how to use it on the stone too.
How is this coming along?Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
My solution is a large extra extra coarse DMT...
not the DMT most ideal for lapping water stones.
Another solution is loose grit on steel or glass.
Common sand and water on a sidewalk can also work
especially if a bit of the sidewalk needs to be scratched down.
If the hone has a big dip to grind away...
In the hardware store you will find big old
carborundum blocks in the cement and tile finishing
section. Called a rubbing stone by some
some are as coarse as 24 grit.
Home depot here has a: QEP Dual Grit Sanding and Rubbing
Stone for Smoothing Rough Edges of Cut Tiles.
One side is 60 grit the other side is 80 grit.
I have seen them much larger from time to time.
The new ones are flat enough
With a good eye you can get the Arky close enough to
finish with less abusive and coarse material.
Good to bevel the corners of other hones once you
get the feel of it.
And yes power tools... like a rented belt sander are
quick. Like any power tool -- be cautious.
I have a large Black Arkansas that is only lapped in the center half of the stone. Now I have purchased a DMT 220 Extra Course, but I hesitate to use it on the Black Ark for fear of wearing it out. I have spent hours on the Black Ark to no avail. This is one hard stone.
I also have a Transluscent Ark that I use with oil. It is fairly flat but I would like to have the Black Ark just as flat or flatter to see which stone is the better finisher.
Any suggestions will be appreciated...........
Jerry
____
Oh there is an option that I used on a mildly translucent stone that did work, and I forgot to mention. Find a nice big area of flat concrete, get a 2 liter bottle of water, wet concrete, get on hands and knees, lap the stone on the concrete using full body weight for as long as you can before you're body gives out...repeat as many times as necessary. When you're done the concrete will be polished too btw. It took me four days of this. Working til exhaustion each time on a new spot of concrete. Good times.
I've been continuing with the 220 sandpaper, making slow progress. I picked up a 60/80 grit rubbing stone that I will use to knock off the rest of this damn belly. I'll report back on its effectiveness.
I agree that arks will eat a DMT, I lost one to arks. Sand paper, Belt sander and old carborundum stones have worked for me. I just received a bunch of loose polishing grits from Got Grit, based on a thread here a month or two ago on lapping stones, with nice photos.
I bought a few Arks & Indian oil stones that need lapping. Harbor Freight sells a set of cheap Diamond stones they are a bit rough, but they are about 12 bucks for 3 and work great for hogging off material, then sand paper then carborundum to finish.
I will post the results of the grit lapping, when I get them out of the TSP. They keep releasing oil. The other thread makes it look promising. Got Grit is a telescope lens grinding site, so they are grinding glass.
Bottom line DMT and Arks… Arks win every time and can get expensive.
i also bought a dmt 220 for a black ark 10x3x1 it was 10% lappped. i finished it in four hours just let the diamonds do the work after i was done the dmt felt fine but not as coraseQuote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
Too bad there isn't a place to send Arks off to be lapped. I tried lapping a Washita, and gave up. One of my translucents is 16" long, and one of the Surg Blks is 14", I'm not even going to try those..
Sound advice - cheaper and quicker than a DMT, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Regards,
Neil
I've wondered if I've got the best surface on my Charnley. Since it's also novaculite, would this treatment translate to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by eleblu05
With respect to onimaru55, the truly fastest way is to tie it to our back bumper and DRIVE!Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Absolutely does! I have been playing around with my new CF, and it behaves very similar to my finest Arks. Mine does not seem to achieve the mirror effect to the same degree as the black ark though. but close!Quote:
Originally Posted by roughkype
i prep all of my novaculite stone this way it does make a difference hards, surgical,trans cf,li,hindoQuote:
Originally Posted by roughkype
These are some pics of an early experiment with coarse automotive valve grinding paste. IIRC it is a mix of SiC & AlOX.
The stone is Spydie UF. These very quickly "break in" a DMT.
Pic #1 Factory grind marks
#2 10 minutes lapping
#3 Half an hour lapping. I think I spent 2 hours from go to whoa.
#4 Did I say it was messy ?
#5 Refreshing the paste.
I think I'd go with a belt sander on a badly dished arky but this method is a good follow up. You can even finish on a little diamond spray.
Hi eleblu05,Quote:
Originally Posted by eleblu05
I finally did this with my Charnley last night, using a SpydercoUF and diamond paste instead of the pocket stone, then the back side of my DMT325 plate and oil like you instruct. Then I honed, and got the first good results I've had from this hone. Thank you for sharing this knowledge; I can finally be happy about purchasing this hone.
The weird thing about my hone is that from straight on it looks like a very matte surface, but if you look from a very low angle (10 deg or so) you get a very shiny reflection. This is true looking from either side of the hone, and also from the long ends.
Best wishes and thanks again!
Just to give an update on the original stone for the thread, it had quite a belly to it. It is mostly flat now, but I haven't touched it in a while. I have a DMT d8c en route, should be here today, but I'm hesitant to use it on the arkie. I was planning on using it on my shapton glass.
HAS plays dirty. It lead me to straight razor shaving, not the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleblu05
Are you honing with the knife to smooth the stone or just rubbing the spine of the knife on the stone?
I use my front porch, concrete works amazingly well for hard arky's
You makes reference to eleblu05 above.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
For me I have found that Arkies and the Spyderco UF hone all take on the apparent
grit of the last tool used to flatten them for a while. Rubbing the surface with mild steel
with lots of fluid these very hard hones calm down and begin to show their quality.
Both begin to have a glint to the surface where the grains have been polished smooth
and near flat. The same is also true for some famous barber hones. i.e. the finish
that makes a good razor edge is worn into the surface and not a function of the intrinsic
grain size.
