Anyone Using A Coticule For Touchups?

I normally use Chromium Oxide on felt with the SRD paddle strop for touchups. I got a coticule about a year ago and have been experimenting with it.

I read on coticule.be that a coticule can be used for touchups. The recommendation was for 30 x strokes on the typical 2" by 6" stone, with water and no slurry, every 5 - 7 shaves. It also states that you can go up to 60 strokes for touchups.

Are any of you gentlemen using a coticule for touchups? If so, I'd appreciate comments about your routine and experience.

You realise there is no such thing as a "typical" natural stone. Using 30- 60 strokes on a stone that will do the job in 5-6 strokes will take your edge backwards. Bottom line, you need to learn your own rock.

I use my Coticule to touch-up, well as it's almost my only useful finisher. I do not have a set routine, when stropping doesn't cut it any more, I do a touch-up. Also depends on my razor, my shefield needs touching up more often then my Dovo.

As said before depends on your stone, your razor and so on. My only recommendation is to touch-up when needed soon you'll fine the routine for your razor.

Hope that helps.
Nathaniel

my coti does everything..though I use DMT1200 to set the bevels..goes much quicker..if you have a hard coti..it can remove tiny chips as well as bevel set, sharpen and polish

As onimaru55 said the only way is to figure out how your own stone behaves, as I'd venture to say that none of my coticules behaves like yours.

If you don't have much honing experience throwing an unknown hone in the mix of all other variables is simply making your life harder for no good reason. Hence the usual recommendation from the highly experienced members here (experience with successfully teaching others how to hone) is to use a hone with well established properties for honing razors, like the norton.

But you have what you have and want to use your coticule, so the only thing that can help you in figuring it out is to contact the person who you bought it from. If they have used it for honing razors they can tell you their exact regimen. If you just bought it from a vendor you can try to identify the particular vein the stone has come from (by its looks) and then ask people who use stones from that vein for their experience wich should be fairly close to yours.
Or you can try to get some more objective measure of the performance of your hone, for example raise a slurry and do X number of strokes until the slurry changes color and post the photographs or video of the slurry before and after, so that others can judge the speed of removing metal.

I guess if you read coticule.be you can be left with the impression that 'all coticules are good, they all work pretty much the same' (keep in mind that these people are almost religious about these stones), but I haven't had this experience. Each of my coticules performs very differently from the others, so I am not going to waste my time and yours talking about my hones when they most likely have nothing to do with yours.

What gugi mentioned , raising a slurry, seeing how many strokes it takes to turn color ... showing how quickly , or slowly, the stone is cutting the metal. I fool with stones to see where they fit into my arsenal. I've got some coticules but if I need a touchup I'm more likely to go to my escher. If it seems it needs more than that, the norton 8k then back up to the escher.

I have one just for that purpose that I leave in my den. A little 4x2. Works just fine!!

Like onimaru55 states, "know your rock." But then you kind of got to know the blade too. I'll say this, I don't do that many strokes, but I do start with a very light slurry.

It's fun messing around with it - and when you use it for just touch-ups before a shave, you'll discover quickly enough what works and what doesn't. I have a barbers hone in the den too. It's fun as well. : )

Now if Naniwa made a little 12K 4x2, I would be in heaven lol!!

Just another e.g. of YMMV. Speed of slurry discolouration may only tell you how fast the stone is & not how fine.
I have 2 very fast coticules. Both raise swarf in about 10 strokes on plain water but one leaves a very coarse scratch pattern & the other I can shave off comfortably. I'd advise that some form of magnification might be a useful addition to help you assess your stone.

I have one razor which I honed on a coticule and touch up on the same coticule. I just use a water/glycerin mix, and do some plain water strokes on the hone. I aim for 20-30 strokes that way. As I recall, the results with that razor/stone were quite good.

If you have a coticule and need a touch up on your razor, then I would say to go for it. Just try some strokes on plain water and see what happens. Don't worry too much about counting strokes. Keep it moderate and you should be fine. With luck you will get a great edge, suitable for shaving, from your stone.

Michael

If you are happy with what you are using now no need to throw more money at the process. I use a coticule on most of my honing but it is not my last hone and I do not use it for touch ups and I almost never use pastes or sprays to finish. I have so many shave ready razors that each one might be used once a year if that. If I feel the desire to 'enhance the edge' I strop on linen or cloth (nylon works well also), strop on a roo strop from SRD that was treated w/ a light coat of CrOx and then strop on leather but this is rare. If I find a razor that isn't up to my current standards of shave ready I drop down to the 4k w/ circles and work back up to my finisher. I really don't have the luxury of time to screw around with my honing any more so I use what I know works best and works w/ the least amount of fuss and time. As noted above, each coticule seems to be unique as are most natural hones. I also find that using coticules requires a lot of testing along the way especially if you are using a slurry. I have found that synthetic hones, C12k's (if you get a good one) and Eschers are a lot more consistent than coticules. In the end, use what you have and learn what to expect from it/them. Throwing more money at a process is a fool's attempt to improve a process if their experience doesn't match the enhancement the tool will bring to the table. If you have the budget, time and interest go for it but don't expect to find the holy grail. To get closer to that end nothing beats personal experience with what you have on hand before you move to the next level. Be patient and pay attention to the smallest of details and you'll get there. Good luck.

To me, of course YMMV, a touchup on the stone every 5-7 shaves
seems a bit excessive in the context of proper stropping (especially
with a nice linen side) -- even with a single razor used daily.

- Scott

I used to use a coticule to touchup all my razors with great success. My stone is fairly hard and it takes a few dozen light laps with water to feel some improvement. The resulting edge is typical for a coticule: smooth and comfortable.

These days I mostly use my Naniwa 12k for touchups, but I still have a couple razors with "pure coticule" edges.

While I don't own a coticle, it does sound like a good plan, depending on the grit of said coticle.
I usually do a couple of conservitive pyramids at the point I feel a touch up is needed. 4K/8K Norton is what I"m talking about of course. The last touch up I did on pre-hone inspection I found I had put a very small but noticable flat spot near the toe of my Dovo, it required me to go do some circles on the 4K side of my Norton to get my even bevel back before doing some more pyramids and finally to my Chinese supposed "15K" PHIG stone, about 40 to 50 very light strokes were done on that rock and finally a few light strokes of Crox.

That MY store and I"m sticking to it, no mater what!

Have fun with it chaps, tinkersd

Sorry, I meant that's MY STORY, thanks.

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Originally Posted by tinkersd

Sorry, I meant that's MY STORY, thanks.

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Darn, I was hoping I could buy something ! :p

As coticules are my main hones, I do most of my honing on them and all my finishing. Most touch-ups too (although I recently got a small grey Thuringian, but re-touched only one razor one that).

There's a couple of things I've tried. Pure water on most, and it seems to work pretty nicely. 30-60 back-and-forth X-strokes on a coticule seems to work. I have honed quite a bit on quite a few different coticules now and so far I have not overhoned anything (overhoning I guess would be creating a burr, which on a coticule on water has to be virtualy impossible), so you can always do more. I once did a hundred, but the result was no better than after fifty.

Another thing I have tried quite recently is something which seems to work very (surprisingly) nicely. A fellow coticule user came across it and shared it, I have done that quite a bit now and I must say it works too. This is it:

- Load your coticule with water
- Give it ONE back and forth stroke with your slurry stone (or only a one way stroke, less might be more, haven't fine-tuned it yet), you really only want a very thin slurry, only a hint really.
- Make eliptic motions across the hone back and forth (as if you're writing elaborate connected L's) in the following progression: 5 circles, 4 circles, 3 circles, 2 circles. Use only the weight of the blade.
- A crucial aspect: inbetween the progressions dip the razor in clear water.
- Strop like you normally would after honing

That's it. It seems to work, definiately at least worth the try. No need to make lots of X-strokes on clear water.

I tried something like that on the Thuringian as well, it seems to work pretty nicely, but then again it auto-slurries a tiny bit.

Here is a pretty good thread about finishing and touching up (please excuse all the OT stuff that comes later)

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...oticule-3.html

In post #90 you will find a vid of the "Pigtail" stroke that I am talking about in pervious posts, and how is can be used to very good advantage with a coticule...

I bought a 1.5 x 5" Coti on Lynn's good advice early last year, as the one stone to take along with two straights on a multi-month trip overseas. I also had a strop and a stick of CrOx. Stropping and occasional passes on the CrOx did the job for the first six weeks, then I ran both razors across the Coti for a few dozen light strokes, lots of water. This re-honed the edges very nicely, and I did not have to use the stone again for the remainder of the trip (another six - eight weeks).

An additional benefit to the Coti was that the blue side worked perfectly to keep my two everyday carry knives nicely honed. Great recommendation!

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Originally Posted by HamburgO

I bought a 1.5 x 5" Coti on Lynn's good advice early last year, as the one stone to take along with two straights on a multi-month trip overseas. I also had a strop and a stick of CrOx. Stropping and occasional passes on the CrOx did the job for the first six weeks, then I ran both razors across the Coti for a few dozen light strokes, lots of water. This re-honed the edges very nicely, and I did not have to use the stone again for the remainder of the trip (another six - eight weeks).

An additional benefit to the Coti was that the blue side worked perfectly to keep my two everyday carry knives nicely honed. Great recommendation!

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Not to hijack this thread, but I had been considering a natural combo coti about 1.25 x 5" and was wondering how the size would work for just maintaining a razor, i.e. retouching the edge? What is your experience on the size you have?

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Originally Posted by BobK

Not to hijack this thread, but I had been considering a natural combo coti about 1.25 x 5" and was wondering how the size would work for just maintaining a razor, i.e. retouching the edge? What is your experience on the size you have?

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I have found a 5" coticule to be a nice size. Especially if you prefer to hold the hone in your hand. Many of the old barber coticules, that I saw firsthand in shops years ago, were 5x2 1/2.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I have found a 5" coticule to be a nice size. Especially if you prefer to hold the hone in your hand. Many of the old barber coticules, that I saw firsthand in shops years ago, were 5x2 1/2.

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Plus 1 most Barber Hones are targeted around the 5x2 size, seems to be about ideal for holding them in the hand for quick touch ups

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Plus 1 most Barber Hones are targeted around the 5x2 size, seems to be about ideal for holding them in the hand for quick touch ups

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Would a 1.25x5 be too narrow; making it hard to keep the razor flat on the hone?

Some guys like a narrower hone for warped spines or maybe smiling blades. I prefer a 2" or 2 1/2 but I've had 1 7/16 eschers that worked real well. Inch and a quarter is one I've not personally messed with.

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Originally Posted by BobK

Would a 1.25x5 be too narrow; making it hard to keep the razor flat on the hone?

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Nope, that should be fine. Even with hones thinner than that, the issue isn't so much keeping the razor flat as it is keeping the pressure light (due to the smaller contact surface).

Thank you for your replies. I have another question, but I will start a new thread; didn't mean to hijack this one.

My first coticule was 40 x 125 mm, which is roughly 1 1/2 x 5 in. I got used to it despite the small size. It cost me $69.00.

I just ordered a slightly larger one - 50 x 150mm, which is roughly 2 x 6 in. I was actually more interested in the extra width than length. It's only a small increase in size but I expect it will be helpful to have even a little extra area. It cost me $120.00, so there's a significant price increase for such a small increase in size. There's an ever more significant increase in price when you go up to 3 x 8 in, and then you're talking about a stone larger than the typical barber hone.

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Originally Posted by BobK

Not to hijack this thread, but I had been considering a natural combo coti about 1.25 x 5" and was wondering how the size would work for just maintaining a razor, i.e. retouching the edge? What is your experience on the size you have?

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I worked it with x-strokes on a table, couldn't have been happier. Perfect size for travel, but it's what I mostly use at home now too. If you decide to buy one, don't forget to pick up a small slurry stone as well.

Im using a 125x35mm Coticule to touch up my razor, its some kind of aggressive so that in most cases 10 Strokes are enough. After honing with the coticule i usually use a Chromoxide Strop to mellow the Edge or my Celebrated Water Razor Hone, shaving direct from the coticule is possible, but i prefer a smoother edge.

Sham has a great video he just posted on youtube. He explains how coticules vary in nature, how to use them as one stone honing with varying slurry stones, etc.

http://youtu.be/rS1hUkbPsgo


not all coticules are great for razors, despite the continuing argument otherwise. I know because I have owned coticules myself that are inclusion free but ruin a razor edge, or just finished at a 4K level feeling edge. Enjoy.

Thats Right, not all cotis are great for Razors, at the moment i have six that are, but ive also had a few that werent good enough for razors, so i gave them away for sharpening kitchen tools.

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Originally Posted by Rockabillyhelge

Thats Right, not all cotis are great for Razors, at the moment i have six that are, but ive also had a few that werent good enough for razors, so i gave them away for sharpening kitchen tools.

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So the soft and fast coticules aren't good for razors or one-stone honing?