Bread knife to setting a bevel on a 4k

What would be the progression for setting a bevel on a 4k? I had to bread knife a DD gold edge I purchased earlier this year and am finally trying to get it cleaned up and honed. This would be my 5th razor honing and I don't seem to be making any progress on this one, stones are flat, I definitely have a nice even edge established but nothing I would consider sharp, (can't cut arm hair). This is after 5 hrs. with taped spine (1 layer electrical tape). I know setting a bevel with the 4k is probably not Ideal, I see a 1k in my distant future, but for now I'm stuck with the 4k/8k Norton, Chinese 12k. A little direction would be much appreciated! Or should I just continue, with what I'm doing? Thanks!

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I think we all know what it is like to work with what we have! If you breadboarded it, you will have a long way to go on 4K. I suppose if you slurried it up as much as you can, you might try circles, pressing down . You also might try getting it semi sharp on some 600 grit wet sanding paper wrapped tightly around your hone, then going to the 4000. A 1000 stone is really necessary and in the case of a breadboarded one, a DMT 325 is really the ticket to getting started. You might find another member in your area to help you out as well. In any case, it will eventually come around, I suppose. It will take time, though! Good luck!

After breadknifing even with a 1K it takes quite some time to set a new bevel, next time try to rather hone out the chip or whatever the problem is, it saves you a lot of time in the end.

My best advice if you don't have a lower grit stone is to build up some slurry on the 4K to give it some more speed.

+1 to the above advice. Another tip is to use 3 or 4 layers of tape. Once the edge starts to come in you can start removing the tape, layer by layer until you are down to one or no tape, depending on your preference.

Yeah, 4000 will take a long time. You were offered some good advice here.. A 1000 grit hone (Norton FTW) is your best bet so you can get a nice, even bevel. Then you move onto the 4000 and work from there. I don't know if I'd use 600 grit sandpaper for anything other than honing out a chip. You'd be better off with 1000 wet/dry, on a flat marble or granite tile.

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That vid will show you how to do it,, Should take you about 20 minutes on the 4k for a DD, ok it would take me 20 minutes :p might take you 30 :)


This is not honing, this is restoration

You can use this http://m.homedepot.com/p/Norton-6-x-...one/100069242/ if you can't afford a 1k. The fine side is probably between 600 hundred and 800 I have used it to set bevels before. It can leave some deep scratches that can be hard to get out. It is also very fast.

If you are unable to get a super clean bevel with it get it as close as you can then move to doing circles on the 4 k that should smooth it out and leave a nice bevel.

I don't use tape normally but on this I would probably suggest it as you have a fair amount of metal to remove from the edge.

Thanks for all the reply's, I'll check your vid out gssixgun. Zephyr I hear you loud and clear, after hovering over the hones for hours, I think the next time I'll spend it trying to hone it out rather than doing what I did. Sharptonn & FiReSRART, sounds like a good option since I won't be dropping some cabbage for a stone any time soon. Thesus, what is the theory behind more layers of tape, just curious? I know it would increase my angle and save the spine from hone wear. Would it create a smaller edge, removing smaller amounts of metal at a time with removal of each layer of tape?

Taping does save the spine, and will increase your upward angle, I always use a layer of tape when I hone.
When I "Joint" an edge, or breadknife one, I use the 4k side of my Norton 4k/8k using very firm circles, 40 each side and then check progress, then 40 more per side, check progress, [you get the idea].
I think the problem might be that you have read so much about useing just the weight of the razor in the honing proccess, that your afraid to really "Put the metal to the stone" as it were,
You will need to use some presure at first before the edge will fell arm hair reliably.

Those are my thought's for the day gents, have a great shave on me!!

tinkersd

You really need a DMT 325 and a 1K hone. If I had to buy just one of the two to combine with a 4K, I would definitely get the DMT 325. I say this for time reasons. Buy either the DMT 325 or the 1K hone and the end result is the same. But, you will spend tons less time getting there with the DMT 325.

Again, buy both if you can. If you can't, go with the DMT 325.

I was eyeing up the DMT 325 and 1k , they're on my list, as soon as money allows, I guess I'm at a stand still for now...I got the 3/32" of a chip out of the blade with a Smith tri-hone using the coarse stone. Maybe if I work with that same one I can move thing's along faster.

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Originally Posted by LarryAndro

You really need a DMT 325 and a 1K hone. If I had to buy just one of the two to combine with a 4K, I would definitely get the DMT 325. I say this for time reasons. Buy either the DMT 325 or the 1K hone and the end result is the same. But, you will spend tons less time getting there with the DMT 325.

Again, buy both if you can. If you can't, go with the DMT 325.

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The last guy who breadknifed a DD caused Charlie Bresnick to turn over in his grave. Restless spirits can be dangerous.

What's all on your tri hone. If its course , soft/ hard ark that should be able to get you a bevel pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by Castel33

What's all on your tri hone. If its course , soft/ hard ark that should be able to get you a bevel pretty quick.

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+1. I've used the coarse stone on a tri-hone several times on damaged blades. I rink it it around 300 grit, so be careful with it, it will eat the metal quickly.

Reasons for Breadknifing:

1. You like to hone for hours at a time.
2. You like getting bored and applying lots of pressure.
3. You are interested in decreasing blade width.
4. You have rested your blade too much and need to limit its growth.
5. You have a fondness for carpal tunnel syndrome.
6. You need a reason to stay in the honing den.
7. You are a fan of honing on low grit stones.
8. You want to build up your biceps and triceps.
9. You are trying to loosen up the pin.
10. You don't have any pets that need to be taken out.
11. You are dieting and don't need dinner or maybe even breakfast.
12. You love the sound of steel scraping on a 1K stone.
13. You are trying to find out why not to breadknife.
14. You are married and, well, it's not working out too well.
15. You are unemployed and have no money to go anywhere.

Attachment 101428Attachment 101420 What else could I have done with this? Please don't answer, what's done is done, there's plenty of blade left on this one. Forgive me Charlie, I know not what I do.....:p

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The last guy who breadknifed a DD caused Charlie Bresnick to turn over in his grave. Restless spirits can be dangerous.

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Breadboarding a blade is part of my usual ritual with a damaged blade. I want it to be the shape required and an even bevel set. If you try to hone a problem out, you are at the previous owner's mercy. Metal lost to make a fine bevel is necessary, IMHO.
Starting over is hard, Fixing another's leftover is hard too! I would rather it be my bevel, on new steel.
I feel you have done the right thing for your shaver. It will work!

You need to recontour the heel, whenever you do an edge restore, you are removing years of steel in one sitting so that heel needs to be knocked back..

Looked at your video yesterday and picked up on that, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You need to recontour the heel, whenever you do an edge restore, you are removing years of steel in one sitting so that heel needs to be knocked back..

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You need to recontour the heel, whenever you do an edge restore, you are removing years of steel in one sitting so that heel needs to be knocked back..

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I was fortunate to be able to see Glen do the heel correction in person! It really made sense as he showed how slowly, ever so slowly a 'hook' occurred and that the 'hook' needed corrected!!!!!

Thanks Glen!:bow

I recently did this very thing by accident. I have a set of Nani and I grabbed the wrong blue hone. I had a slurry built up because of what I was doing and used a good bit of pressure when doing circles and X strokes. I knew it would take some time so I was at it for a while before I checked the progress. When I did stop to check thats when I noticed I had the 5K and to my surprise I was making pretty good progress so I stayed with the 5K just to see. It took me about 4 and a half hours of straight honing (good pressure) before it would cut the hair off my arm. The next day I spent another few hours finishing the bevel and finishing the thru to the strop. It took a long time and my fingers hurt for a week after that but it can be done. I have been using it for about a month now. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Trimmy72

Attachment 101428Attachment 101420 What else could I have done with this? Please don't answer, what's done is done, there's plenty of blade left on this one. Forgive me Charlie, I know not what I do.....:p

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If I have a blade that MUST be taken down on a 1000 grit I run the blade spine first over my grinding stone to protect the edge. This will let you take down the metal on the edge without breadboarding. Once the nick/chunk is out then I use my honing series to hone it back in