How Does One "Finish" With A Coticule

My question has to do with using a coticule to "finish" after a full honing progression on synthetic stones. I use a Naniwa 1,3,5,8,12k. If one wants to finish with a coticule, would one do that after the 12k (or whatever one's highest grit polishing stone is)? If not, exactly where does the coticule fit at the end of the honing scheme? I'd appeciate your comments and explanations as to your routines, including number of laps on the coticule. I understand that each coticule is different and one has to get to know one's individual stone. But I just want to get an idea of what you are doing to finish with your coticule.

Glen has a great utube video out... But, I just build a slurry. Then do twenty circular strokes on each side... Then I do about forty X strokes on each side. I finish with three reverse stropping strokes to take off the wire edge. Then I strop one hundred times on leather... This gives it a buttery edge.. Keep in mind I am no hone miester, just a guy who has been shaving awhile.

I would go to a coticule after an 8k. I think you would be hard pressed to better the 12k edge with most coticules. OTOH, some coticules might be capable , in the right hands, of improving on the 12k. There is also the "1 stone honing method" with a coticule, but I prefer setting bevels, if necessary, with the 1k chosera or whatever. Just IMHO.

For most, its much easier. For me, it starts w/ about 4 fingers of a decent scotch. :)

Coticules did not come easily for me, but they certainly have a place in anyones rockpile. If its possible to better the edge from a Nani 12 w/ a coti, its either a special coti, or you're looking not to improve sharpness, but only impart the coti smoothness. I find the Nani 12 finish quite satisfying by itself. If I try a coti finish after an N12 or jnat, it is only by using the most insanely light touch in the stroke. Usually trying to support some of the weight of the blade - so less than blade weight is on the edge. Like Wintchase, I DO use stropping strokes in my finishing. 'Something to try. If it doesn't help - don't do it. Some use mineral oil for final strokes. One extremely experienced guy used a 50/50 mix of bees wax and wood-based turpentine. Each method has had its successes. I just can't get too excited about the difference between coti feel and a nicely done N12 feel. They're both very good. 'No reason to further chase the holy grail.

I've taste some nice naturals. Tasty indeed. But bang for the buck and also reliability of servicing every blade seem to favor the synthetic for me. Ask Birnando or Zethlent about their Soehiro Gokumyo finishers.

Lots of good advice already,,,

I can only add one more thought and honestly it isn't proved

I go to a finisher after the razor is completly shave ready, for me that is at the 8k level, it might be there for you also, but to know you have to test your honing..
Once you are confident in that shave ready level, then the finish becomes just that "A finish" you are going to have to try a few different methods of finishing with your Coti to decide which gives the best edge and even then it might vary between razors a bit..

I do have to agree with most of the guys above, that once you hit the 12k there really isn't much room left to improve on the edge...

TheLegalRazor,

When I use my cotis (either 'La Veinette or 'La Verte'), I use them for the main part of the honing session; I then finish using 10 to 30 laps on a Naniwa 12k SS.

As it stands, my skills are not sufficient to get the 'sharpness' I like from the cotis alone. Adding the 12k SS at the end gives an edge that pleases me and my chops :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

i think what most people will recommend is get it shave ready to an 8k or 12k level, shave test it, and then go to the coticule with water (or mineral oil, or lather).. do a few laps.. shave test again.. you will probably notice an increase in smoothness, and a decrease in keeness (from the 12k).. you will want to figure out how many laps to do to get the balance right unless the coti is keen enough for you that it doesnt matter.. ive heard folks mention micochipping with the nani 12k (i dont know if that is the superstone, chosera, or both) so you may need to figure out how many laps with the 12k as well. you can definately go to the coti from the 8k.

This thread has a huge YMMV factor but here's what works for me: I have a 6x2 inch Coticule, a naniwa 10K, a C12K and a shoubudani JNAT and they are all great finishers. For a long time I liked the JNAT edge the best, crazy sharp yet very smooth but I had to use that razor with great care or I would cut myself up.
The coti felt even smoother but also way less sharp. A while ago I started using the coti after the JNAT with just water and doing only like 30 or 40 very light X strokes. While to some that may seem backwards I find it doesn't loose much of the keennes of the JNAT but it gives it that buttery smooth coti edge.
The feel on the face is like it's a dull razor and it's hard to cut myself, but the way it cuts the whiskers on my chin and the HHT tell me it's still wicked sharp.
A couple of weeks ago I was in a wholesale toolshop and found they had some small coticule bouts. One was a natural combo about the size of a barbers hone and I picked it up for 11 euro (13 or 14 dollar), it's much finer then my other coti and I love to finish on that one and use it to touch up the razor every couple of shaves using only water. It does HHT right from the stone!

Finish on spit instead of water...worked for me, but its a little gross. I heard this is how old timers did it when no water was around, it will thicken as you hone.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

Finish on spit instead of water...worked for me, but its a little gross. I heard this is how old timers did it when no water was around, it will thicken as you hone.

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For best results have a couple of healthy pinches of Copenhagen snuff under your lower lip ..... :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Lots of good advice already,,,

I can only add one more thought and honestly it isn't proved

I go to a finisher after the razor is completly shave ready, for me that is at the 8k level, it might be there for you also, but to know you have to test your honing..
Once you are confident in that shave ready level, then the finish becomes just that "A finish" you are going to have to try a few different methods of finishing with your Coti to decide which gives the best edge and even then it might vary between razors a bit..

I do have to agree with most of the guys above, that once you hit the 12k there really isn't much room left to improve on the edge...

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Glen: I think I don't understand your post. You say you got the 'finisher' AFTER it's shave ready? Meaning you hone, strop....and then go to the finisher? And then shave?

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

For best results have a couple of healthy pinches of Copenhagen snuff under your lower lip ..... :rofl2:

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I rather like the wintergreen as it offers a cooling effect. I wonder if that is a thing? Tobacco finished!

I have just received a 6"x1.5" vintage combo coti and have been experimenting on it. I took three razors to 8k and they shaved ok. I then ran one on the coti with pure water and super light pressure.

I gave it a look under 60x and the bevel looked to have been polished but a little scratchy. Hand stroped because I did not bring my strop on this business trip.

The razor had dulled and pulled quite a bit but felt smooth. I will have to give another review one I have stroped the razor properly.

As of now, I have to say that a razor straight off a thuri gave me a much better shave.

I am still learning the stones just posting my experiences so far.

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Glen: I think I don't understand your post. You say you got the 'finisher' AFTER it's shave ready? Meaning you hone, strop....and then go to the finisher? And then shave?

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No

There are 4 stages of honing regardless of what system you are using


Bevel set
Sharpen
Polish
Finish


A shave ready razor is where you can comfortably shave, for most experienced people this is at about the 8k level (Grit equivalent not a certain hone) some people need higher some lower, but where ever that stage is for you is where you should begin using a Finisher...

This is a progressive journey, which is why you hear many say that until you can get CCS at the 8k level consistently there is no reason to add a finisher...


The last bit about the 12k is because I don't believe in "Stacking" finishers, when I read about people using multiple finishers on one razor my thought always is that they are stressing the edge, or that the edge wasn't good enough to use the finisher they wanted in the first place..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

For best results have a couple of healthy pinches of Copenhagen snuff under your lower lip ..... :rofl2:

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It worked for shining my boots as well

Ugh, I remember mentioning this spit stuff...

Now I just use water and if the stone is not fine enough then I use paste or a finer stone after.
Rinse the stone often near the sink to ensure it is staying clean, that is all.