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I am curious about the functional difference between x-strokes and heel-leading strokes. The latter is a lot easier for me to maintain consistency of pressure, and I've never liked the fact that x's hone the toe more than the heel amd try to minimize their use. What is your experience with the two, and do any of you forsake the highly praised x-stroke?
The heel leading, for me, is usually reserved to create even bevel and fix spines. After the fix I go for regular x-stroke and circles mix. I do not agree that the x- stroke hones the toe more than the heel, it should hone the razor evenly.
Heel first when honing helps with smiley razors
I do x strokes with the heel leading slightly. There have been threads.... debates on whether the point is honed more with the x stroke than the heel. IIRC the consensus was that they are about equal when the strokes are properly executed.
Let's make sure I say this correctly :)
Properly excecuted X strokes hone evenly, just the same as properly excecuted Heel forward strokes or Circle strokes or Japanese Honing, or Side honing, or Spine forward, or, or, or :p
The point being here, that proper honing of any type moves the steel evenly and equally across the stone to bring out a smooth, sharp, an most importantly even edge ...
Each style of stroke has it's own purpose, the trick/skill is using each to it best advantage...
There is none. You are orienting scratches that terminate at the edge of the razor either way, and with fine abrasives, or even abrasives that aren't fine, there will be no functional difference in the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
If you can execute one better than the other evenly across the bevel, then you should use the one that you can do better.
This is interesting. It seems most all old barber's hone with the instructions still intact suggest a heel-leading stroke. Nothing wrong with it, IMO.
Some blades tend to require it!
A guy who used to be around here, TheTopher, taught me how to hone razors early on. I mean in person one on one. He honed with the blade at a 90 degree angle to the hone. Very fast stroke. Very methodical. He got 'em sharp.
I don't know if it was my father teaching me to hone heel leading with pocket knives or what but I gravitated to that style right from jump street in spite of TheTopher's tutelage. ( say that fast 3 times) .:rofl2:
Heel leading slightly works well for me though I've picked up on Lynn's circle technique for a lot of the earlier work. Like Glen said, (paraphrasing) whatever you do, do it right and it'll come out right. :D
I was actually thinking about this exact topic yesterday. Thanks for the advise also.
I have been using a combo of circles for rough work and heel leading. I guess maybe I don't execute the x-store properly, nor do I understand how it can hone evenly. Most of my hones are wide (2.5" or greater), and starting with the blade perpendicular, heel touching, as I move the blade forward and start moving to the right the heel come off and the toe comes on rather quickly. The middle of the blade gets more space/time (continuum) on the hone, then the toe, followed by the heel getting the least action as it is slid off the hone pretty quickly.
Ultimately, I have always gravitated towards a heel leading stroke because, like Jimmy I was used to sharpening knives as taught by my dad. The only difference is I don't swing te blade like I would on a curved-edge pocket knife. So I pretty much phased out x-strokes a couple years ago, but occasionally wonder if my blades are missing out.
Presume your bevels stay pretty straight, anyway? No matter the method, you'll probably naturally bias toward the heel at the start of the stroke and the toe at the end by no reason other than it's the only thing left on the stone.
None of it matters too much as long as the entire edge is sharp and polished and the bevel is nice and even (so that it will be easy to make the entire edge sharp and polished the next time).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
My thoughts exactly.
Though I am learning a lot of things I previously would have called BS on...I think there are numerous strokes that can be employed to produce a great edge...as long as they are employed with exacting form.
IMO guys who sharpened pocket knives, with clip point blades, pick up the rolling x stroke more easily. That is where we do 'swing the blade.' Nothing scientific but just from honing many razors I think we unconsciously put more pressure on the heel when beginning the stroke.Quote:
Originally Posted by apvonkanel
A matter of it being so close to where we are holding the razor. So it doesn't stay on the hone as long but there is more pressure applied than at the point. IME the point end is where I always have to focus some extra work. The 1961 barber manual technique (SRP library help files PDF) was the solution for my beginning to get edges that were more uniformly sharp from end to end. YMMV.
That's actually been the one thing that kept me from ditching the x-stroke for a while. Knowing that when I don't pay as much attention I tend to put more pressure on the heel, therefore working it more over a shorter distance and potentially negating the difference on time spent in the hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
My solution to uneven honing pressure has been to hold the hone in my left hand rather than leave it on a table. That way I can rotate the hone as the razor passes. It's a ver small, subtle motion, but the feedback from both hands keeps the bevel straight and the edge consistent from heel to toe.