TI and Norton 1k

Printable View

08-20-2012, 08:11 PM
Mephisto

TI and Norton 1k

Ok, I'm not a newb and I am not a seasoned veteran. I have been having issues with my TI. Yes, it is one of newer ones made of Wolverine's bones. Anyway, I have gotten few razors up to shave capable. I have even had some luck in the past with the TI. Of course I am almost to the point of giving up on the TI now. Today I tried something different. I went all the way to the 220 Norton. Oddly enough it was removing arm hair fairly smoothly. However, when I commenced on the 1,000 side using an X-stroke the edge seemed to become duller, not removing arm hairs at all. Idk, I'm stumped at this point. Any suggestions?
08-20-2012, 08:19 PM
DFriedl

Maybe I'm nuts (or maybe my arm hair is just different), but I don't get much arm hair cutting at 1k with my bevel set and ready to move on. Some tests are just more useful for some people than others. Have you tried progressing to 4k or whatever, or are you still trying to shave arm hair at 1k?
08-20-2012, 08:22 PM
roughkype

A toothier blade may be better at cutting than a less toothy one--at 1k, probably because a single point can pierce a hair, and at 220, probably because a hair is grabbed in the V between two teeth.

TI steel is significantly harder than English or German; it'll take longer for you to see results than you may be accustomed to.

Put that 220 hone away, though! I think you're probably doing more harm than good with it. Such grit should only be used for extreme renovation honing and blade reshaping. Use your 1k and be patient.

Try circular strokes on your 1k; they'll speed the progress. Also, raise a little slurry on the 1k; that will also increase speed. Before moving on to higher grits, though, do a dilution of your 1k slurry--20 passes, then dilute with as much water as you can hold on the blade, then 20 passes, then another dilution... maybe 5 dilutions. The particlse suspended in slurry speed the honing, but also limit how keen you can get the edge, because the edge collides with them and they microscopically ding it up--like driving through a hailstorm. The dilutions take your keenness to what it can be on the hone with only water. If this wasn't a TI I'd say 10 passes between dilutions, but again, you're dealing with harder steel.

The other benefit you get from raising a little slurry is that it exposes fresh, sharper crystals on your hone surface.

Wolverine's bones; I haven't heard of that model.
08-20-2012, 09:07 PM
Mephisto

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFriedl

Maybe I'm nuts (or maybe my arm hair is just different), but I don't get much arm hair cutting at 1k with my bevel set and ready to move on. Some tests are just more useful for some people than others. Have you tried progressing to 4k or whatever, or are you still trying to shave arm hair at 1k?

Yes, I'm trying to shave at the 1k level since I can get good results with other razors at the 1k level. My arm hair is not too coarse. My facial hair is.
08-20-2012, 09:11 PM
razorguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mephisto

I went all the way to the 220 Norton.

220 is quite a harsh grit for a straight razor! 1k sounds better for setting a bevel, however, also in this case don't use that for so long.
I use the 1k only in case the bevel is, like to say, disappeared and needs to be completely restored. After that, I go for the 3k, or a coticule with slurry, and progress up to 8k (or coticule with no slurry) and eventually a finer stone, such as the Chinese.
08-20-2012, 11:00 PM
thebigspendur

You didn't say if you got it new or a resale. If it was new personally I wouldn't go below a 4K and I would have started on the 8K. Of course it depends what the condition is but most of the newer TIs seem to be coming with decent edges if not quite shave ready. I'd never use a 1K on that. Start with the finest and work back. TI's will take a little more effort especially if it's the newer steel.
08-21-2012, 02:39 AM
mjsorkin

So it was shaving before and this started as a touch up?

Try making sure you are honing perfectly even. Do the magic marker test and a few light strokes.

IMO 220 really shreds an edge but it should come back with a little 1k work.

Michael
08-21-2012, 04:23 AM
Mephisto

The razor was new and never pro honed. I was able to get decent shaves with it out of the box so I never really worried. I have worked with it a little bit but mainly to maintain it. So really just used the phig, crox or the norton 8k. I was confident enough in my abilities to tackle a bevel set with the razor. Since that time I have not gotten it into shape. I have taken old razors and work them up to shave capable. However, this TI has me perplexed. I know that it is a very hard steel which lead me to try something different. Well, at first, my theory was, hey the steel is so hard it could take it. I only did 8 x-strokes more or less. t shaved some arm hair with it and it did fine. When I went to the 1k I did about 20 x strokes. I figured I would be fine tuning it. Nope, it went backwards. Would not pop hair without significant pressure which lead me to believe that it would definitely not be a comfortable shave.
08-31-2012, 04:37 AM
Euclid440

Mephisto, what prompted you to go to 220? Are you using tape?

You must first see what is happening on the blade. I would strongly recommend one layer of tape and a sharpie on the bevel. These two tells, will give you visual confirmation of what is occurring on the stone. To do more laps or go to more aggressive stones is not the answer. You have to figure out what is going on.

Are the bevel and the spine contacting the stone at 1K? The sharpie ink will quickly show you when you are making complete contact. First ensure you are making contact across the length of the blade, then once you are removing ink across the width of the bevel all the way to the edge… then and only then will the bevel be sharp.

Abrasion of tape on the spine will tell you if the blade is flat on the stone, if the stone is flat and if the blade is warped and/or if you are using too much pressure and where.

To quote Glenn, “tape is cheap”… so is ink, use lots of both.

If all else fails sent it to me and I will make it sing for you, my TI is one of my favorites.
08-31-2012, 04:53 AM
JimmyHAD

I don't set a bevel on a razor unless it is necessary. A new TI would 'probably' not need to have the bevel set. If it did I would use Lynn's circle technique on the 1k and then on the 4k. Move to 8k and so on. I don't even go 220 to remove chips. I might go 600 DMT but most of the time the 1k chosera is plenty. It always varies depending on the razor. Like thebigspendur said, on a new razor I start at 8k , lightly and politely. I only go lower if I have to.
08-31-2012, 05:16 AM
Mephisto

Some success, thanks for the tips

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Mephisto, what prompted you to go to 220? Are you using tape? You must first see what is happening on the blade.

The 220 was just, well, not sure why. It was an experiment. Probably not a very effective or necessary one. I am not using tape but I do use a marker. This has given me clue how to hone it. I go with heel first, at an angle in respect to the edge of the hone. It appears to get the entire bevel. A regular X stroke does not seem to do it with this particular TI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Are the bevel and the spine contacting the stone at 1K?

Yes, they seem to be making contact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

To quote Glenn, “tape is cheap”… so is ink, use lots of both.

So true

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euclid440

If all else fails sent it to me and I will make it sing for you, my TI is one of my favorites.

Thanks. I think I have it down now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't set a bevel on a razor unless it is necessary...

Oh, I have had it for awhile. At first I was just doing upkeep on the razor. I would use a norton 4/8k for that purpose. Overtime it just got to the point where I felt I could do a bevel set with the razor. I had done so with other razors. The TI was giving me a hard time. I think I have it down...I am going to do a few shaves first.
08-31-2012, 03:14 PM
Euclid440

Take you marker and run the marker on the edge lightly 90 degrees to the edge. This will leave ink on just the edge and you will feel any defects in the edge. I find colored ink easier to see, Red or Blue. Then at 1k without slurry, hone the blade one stroke on each side with light pressure. Look at your ink, is all the ink removed? Continue to ink and test untill all the ink is removed in one pass. Test by cutting arm hair with the spine on your skin and the blade 1/4 in above the skin, test 4-5 places on the blade to insure it is sharp across the entire edge.

Then move up to 4k & 8k, finisher. While you probably did not need to re set the bevel you do now. Test you edge with the ink, on your finisher if it does not remove ink start over at 1k.