Honing services

I'm getting to the point with my honing where I think I'd be able to provide some sharpening services for those who don't want to bother with honing.

But I wanted to see how this works right now.

Are there enough guys already offering their services for honing? Would I just be taking away from those who are better and more established? Or is there more work than people to do it?

Do we have a directory or listing of those who will do honing work?

Would it be unethical to offer honing services for a bit less than the going rate of $20, say $15? I don't consider myself on par with Bill or Randy or Lynn by any means, so it seems unfair for me to ask $20. But I wouldn't want to undercut those guys, either... :shrug:

I'm almost more interested in the practice than any money I might make, but it would help offset the investment I've made in my equipment...

Thanks,
Josh

Anyone willing to take on the challenge of honing is always welcome! Best of luck to you.

I'd go slow. There are a lot of razors out there and many hone differently then the 10 razors you learn on. Also, you'll have "responsibility" that can, with some razors be hard to meet.

I can't count the number of posts I've read on other forums which go something like this . . .

"Yea, I paid xx dollars to one of those "honemiesters" over at SRP and the blade never felt sharp at all."

And in some cases it was probably ruined by the first stropping session, but in essence the forum itself takes a hit.

From my own experience I can certainly share that I would love to have the honing knowledge I've learned this month and apply it to the razors I honed last month, and it seems every month feels that way.

There is always a guy posting on here with an Ebay razor thats dull and doesn't want to pay for honing because he isn't ready for more financial commitment. Perhaps you could offer your services for free for a while and see what the process is like a little. Every time I hone a razor for someone else and pack it up I'm left a little uneasy. Could it have been any sharper, smoother, or safer?

By the way, if your interested Lynn has offered in the past (about 2 years ago I think) to evaluate your honing if you send him a blade.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

By the way, if your interested Lynn has offered in the past (about 2 years ago I think) to evaluate your honing if you send him a blade.

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I think I'd be unwilling to call myself a honemeister (and I don't) without lynne's approval of at least 2-3 blades. I still think it's a disservice to newbies that the forum annoints people "honemeister" based on a post count. Given the frequent admonition to newbies to get their razor honed by a honemeister, this obscures just which honemeisters that recommendation is really referring to.

I've occasionally sent blades to newbies, and it's not a comfortable feeling wondering if it's *really* as sharp as it should be, or if they'll dull it on their strop and promptly whine in the forum about how I suck at honing. To be honest, I don't really have a high success rate with newbs. One guy I never heard from again, another PM'd me that he popped all the hair off his arms with it one night (and hasn't been heard from again), and another actually seems to have shaved with it successfully.

And even though I enjoy honing, I've still got non-pakistani blades that I can't get sharp, that have a wierd warp to them or I can't quite figure out the steel. There's no way I'd feel comfortable charging somebody for the service knowing that out there, somewhere, are blades that I can't hone.

On a lighter if somewhat related note, there was a thread on B&B a few days ago where some guy was offering his honemeister services with the proviso that he didn't take stainless blades because they didn't hone very well :-)

It's all about having fun.

We have had members in here recently who called several of us for a month to discuss problems and ask for advice and then went into business. New people rarely know how much experience is out there or not.... I always hope you new guys take care of all the nasty ebay razors for me.......hahahaha. Stainless razors really are not a problem. Some of the newer low end razors like Kamisori and Timor can be a real pain though. As previously said, every razor has it's own personality. Some snap right to awesome, some are finicky and some just seem to take forever. I have people daily who send me razors with rust in the edges and every time it seems I get past it and look in the microscope there is more rust and more micro chipping. Never can tell. On the other end though, there is always someone waiting for their razor and yes they can fold over an edge on the first stropping, catch the blade in the handle causing chipping and a bunch of other stuff not even realizing what they did and blame it on poor honing. The more you hone, the more you learn. None of us is perfect every time. I have honed over 7,000 razors for people and am still learning. We have some members out there who you rarely hear from that can put an awesome edge on a razor like Bill Watkins. If you lose site of the enjoyment, it becomes a chore. Feel free to send me one anytime for a look see.

Lynn

Honing is a tough chore and I agree with the others that it does not always go smoothly. I used to sweat every razor I honed and sent out worrying that it would not be sharp enough and bring me shame <g> I now send them out to another SRP expert that has lived up to his promise. They are sharper than I ever got them.

We can always use more guys to help hone but experience must be built slowly.

Tony

I concur that honemeister should be a title for those who can and will take on honing for other members on a free or paid basis.

The more the merrier. If you're getting the job done, your customers will let you know. If you're not, they'll let you know that, too. Just realize that you won't be able to make everyone happy, that you will occasionally have to rehone a few, and once in a great while, you'll just flat run into one that gives you fits. Experience and perserverence helps there. Plus, you might have to deal with a few snide comments from people who think you're trespassing on "their territory". If you feel confident in your abilities, can back them up, and are willing to be criticized, often for no other reason than a territorial pissing contest, welcome to the club and best of luck to you. If I can help you in any way, I will. And it is intended to interesting and fun. If it ceases to be that, what's the point?:shrug:

And be willing to solicit comments and suggestions from those who honor you by doing business with you. You'll learn more from mistakes than successes, and keeping the lines of communication open prevents disagreements and hard feelings, not just with business, but with interpersonal relationships. Most often, people are reasonable if you'll just talk to them. If somebody isn't happy, do whatever is reasonable to make them happy. You're taking their money; what they worked hard for. There should be a person on the other end connected to that transaction willing to make that money well-spent. You can't make everyone happy, but you damn sure better try. :D

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Originally Posted by ernestrome

I concur that honemeister should be a title for those who can and will take on honing for other members on a free or paid basis.

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Even this is pushing it. Because I would hone a razor for somebody for free (well, if he paid shipping) but success is not guaranteed (even though I feel I can get 'normal' blades shave-ready) and I would not call myself a honemeister even in delirium tremens

Cheers
Ivo

Well, Honer and Honemeister then.

Just a friendly question here.

If you already know/think and state your services will not be to the same standard as the more well known why would you offer paid services.
The result of your work would in this case never consistently be shave ready, and why would someone go for less sharp for a few dollars less?

As Joe stated, if you know what you are doing and are trying to establish a market for a fine product then go for it! Anybody fearing the loss of a customer and who might come down on you knows that he/she has not delivered as expected (otherwise one wouldn't lose a customer that easily usually within this field, nothing beats a satisfied and returning customer).

Maybe offer your services for free for a while to keep perfecting the skills (if you are unsure). This would certainly give you a headstart on a customer database once the paid services start!

Hoekie

I also have an issue with someone charging for services that may not be up to par.

When someone sells me a razor as shave-ready, I assume that all it will need is stropping (possibly a couple on the pasted strop to get it the way I like it). I don't care if it passes the hanging hair or any of the other tests - it needs to shave well.

I also don't want my razor scratched up and expect the honewear to be even.

If you are serious about charging anything beyond shipping costs, I would ask some of the people who's honing services are highly regarded to allow you to hone up a razor for them. Either way you win - you either get some praise or tips for improving your technique.

Good luck.

All I know is that if someone wanted me to hone their razor, I would recommend a good psychiatrist. Or bartender! :w :nj

RT

Suzuki is right about honing a blade for Lynn. Can't lose. I don't plan to hone for $$$ but maybe I will send him something just anyway...

Additionally I'd like to point that currently there is no objective sharpness test for our purposes. Arm hair and HHT tests give various results, with different hair. My beard is different from yours. All this meaning that sometimes a razor might not be as shave-ready to one person as to another. And don't even include technique, which, as we all know, makes a big difference.

I have had good shaves with varying degree of sharpness (feel) on both the same and different razors, fwiw

Cheers
Ivo

Guys,

Thanks for all the great comments. I think I will have to send a few razors to some of the pros for some feedback.

I agree about the "honemeister" title next to our names when we hit 100 posts. Since we throw that term around a lot, it's probably confusing for the newbies. I remember being confused when I first signed up when some "honemeisters" were talking about how they wanted to start to learn how to hone...

It makes a lot of sense what someone said about just paying a few dollars more and getting your razor done by Lynn. If the top-notch guys can handle all the need that's out there, then it wouldn't make sense for anyone else to offer honing service. But if there's more need than there are honers to meet it, then maybe there's room for some of us who aren't superstars yet (but hope to be someday).

Doing some pro bono work for a while sounds like the way to go.

Thanks again,
Josh

You make a great point Josh. I honed hundreds of razors for people for free from the start. It was a great opportunity to learn more and I got to experience many blades that I might not have otherwise. Some folks do just see $$$$, but to each their own. We have always tried to provide information, services and even razors to new people who couldn't afford them, to perpetuate this art. We have some great folks here who for the most part are willing to lend a helping helping hand expecting nothing in return. I'll be happy to look at any razor you want to send. I've been able to get some awesome shaves from razors our members have sent me to test. There is some serious skill and experience in this group.

Thanks,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by joshearl

I don't consider myself on par with Bill or Randy or Lynn by any means, so it seems unfair for me to ask $20. But I wouldn't want to undercut those guys, either... :shrug:


Thanks,
Josh

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I would say if it isn't on par with those gents and also Joe Chandler then you shouldn't offer a service IMHO

Gary

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Originally Posted by garythepenman

I would say if it isn't on par with those gents and also Joe Chandler then you shouldn't offer a service IMHO

Gary

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If it's free service and you feel confident to use for shaving by yourself, your father, son, etc. - I don't have a problem with the fact that it's not up to par with
Lynn and Joe et al - indeed there are few others who are up to par with them.

Of course, this may or may not work for everybody

Cheers
Ivo

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Originally Posted by joshearl

Would it be unethical to offer honing services for a bit less than the going rate of $20, say $15? I don't consider myself on par with Bill or Randy or Lynn by any means, so it seems unfair for me to ask $20. But I wouldn't want to undercut those guys, either... :shrug:

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Josh, how do you know your honing skills aren't as good as theirs? Maybe they are. If you are confident you can get a customer's razor in shave ready condition, and you are interested in offering that service, then you should go for it. There is nothing unethical about competing with other vendors for customer dollars. If you are giving people value, they will return for those services and also recommend you to others. You will know you are doing a good job by that. If not, well, maybe offering a honing service isn't what you want to be doing.

One thing I do know, you'll have more regret about things you didn't do in life than of the things you at least tried to do.

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Originally Posted by izlat

If it's free service and you feel confident to use for shaving by yourself, your father, son, etc. - I don't have a problem with the fact that it's not up to par with
Lynn and Joe et al - indeed there are few others who are up to par with them.

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I think Gary was talking about paid services.

Alan offered to hone my razor for free once when I dinged it and was frustrated. I demanded to pay and he demanded not to be paid, saying he didn't he was on a par w/the top guys here. I ended up not taking him up on it because I wanted to learn, but I still think he's a saint.

Your blades for sale are a good start as the buyers will indicate if they are satisfied with the sharpness, especially since you're selling them dirt-cheap. Everybody wins :D

This thread was quite the can of worms. I'm still thinking all of this through.

SRP is a really cool community with a lot of guys who'll help out a newbie just for the satisfaction of doing a good deed. I'd never want to detract from that.

On the other hand, there are probably guys who don't have a desire to learn to hone and will always just send their razors off for sharpening. I guess these are the guys I have in mind.

A honemeister edge is like the Cadillac of shaving. I guess I'm trying to decide whether it's ethical or wise to offer Ford or Toyota level service at a lower price.

Of course, if I can keep getting razors to polish up and sell, that would be a good start. I think I'll stick with that for a while at least.

Thanks for all the great feedback.
Josh

Josh, go on as you suggested, send a few of your honed razors to Lynn or someone to check and advise. After that if you feel your honing is up to scratch then you are all set.

I would also like to see the title "honemeister" changed as this can be miss leading to newbies etc..

I can make scales and have over 1,000 posts but I ain't no honemeister yet.

Gary

The fact that you even ask that question says to me that you'd be an ethical businessman. I say if you think you can meet the needs of your customers, go for it. Nobody ever succeeded in a business by never taking a risk.

In fact, I have an E-bay razor I've been trying to hone but just don't have the tools to do properly. I was thinking of sending it out to be done, and I'll send it to you if you'd care to take it on.

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Originally Posted by garythepenman

I would also like to see the title "honemeister" changed as this can be miss leading to newbies etc..

I can make scales and have over 1,000 posts but I ain't no honemeister yet.

Gary

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Actually I think this is a very good idea, because it confused me as hell.
When I started getting answers to my first questions I was thinking 'WTF, is everybody a honemeister?

And then I saw Harold's post where he said he was going to learn honing, and he too is ranked honemeister.

Another 40 or so posts and I too will be a honemeister :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao

IMO, the honemeister rank should be reserved for people who have proven they can hone razors to a perfect edge.
That would make it easier for newbies to figure out who's who.

Agree ^ ^ ^ its was not until a few days that i realised that Honemeister did not really mean that, but that somebody could post in alot of threads but what could we change the High Posters status to??

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Originally Posted by Yourmum90

Agree ^ ^ ^ its was not until a few days that i realised that Honemeister did not really mean that, but that somebody could post in alot of threads but what could we change the High Posters status to??

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Sad man, looking for a life?
:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao

Edit: previous sentence should have included ;) of course. I really appreciate all the help I get here.

In other forums they use terms like 'Veteran' or 'Guru'.
On the Sumo forum (which uses the same engine I think) they map posting volume to an existing ranking in Sumo.

But seriously, maybe something that reflects posting volume rather than a crafts skill. But one thing I'd like to know is whether the powers that be think there is value to a change like this. Otherwise there is little point in spending time thinking about it.

Feng,

I'd be glad to give your razor a shot for free. PM me and we'll work out the details.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garythepenman

I would also like to see the title "honemeister" changed as this can be miss leading to newbies etc.

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:HJ
Guys, you've got to get past this anal topic. Anyone that gives credence to a title that is based on the number of posts needs to step back and take another look at themselves. I'm not defending the use of "Honemeister" after 100 posts... far from it. The number of posts can't validate ANY TITLE... period! How many posts on SRP would make someone a "honemeister"? Does 25 make a "shaver"? 50 a "barber"? Why not pick on them too? If Maestro Livi were to post, would he be a "honemeister" after his first post, his 100th post, his 1000th post? What?

Unfortunately virtually every set of titles you can conjure up has a connotation that someone can misinterpret if they are foolish enough to go there. The reason newbies misinterpret is because they're NEWBIES. We'll change the titles and the thresholds someday... and we'll make them as innocuous as possible... then you can say whatever happened to "Honemeister" :roflmao

(Now, before you decide to post a reply to what I've said, I'm not looking for a reply, solution, answer, or anything... I'm just expressing my feelings that NONE of our titles make any sense related to the number of posts. And none ever will, most likely. If you insist on answering anyway, I'm telling you to open a new thread in the Site Comments forum if you want to discuss it further. Let's leave Josh's thread on topic!)