Here is a silly thought.

I can't help but wonder just how good were "average guys" at honing their razors back when there were only straight razors. I wonder this because many of the old razors you see on ebay, as well as a couple of my grandpas/great granpas razors are flat on the spines with deep scratches. If they are flat but smooth, they've obviously been honed with a smooth hone, but some of the deep scratches indicate perhaps someone tried a hone meant for pocket knives. My father told me that he can't remember my grandfathers ever even owning any barbers hones. Then again this may be why they put them all in a box and never used them again. Again, I'm not talking about a barber, or someone who done it professionally, just "average joes"

I would expect very few individuals honed their own razors, a far smaller percentage than the user base here. Barbers were too common-place & convenient for touching up a not-so-keen razor years ago.

Not so silly. This question comes up from time to time on SRP. I always answer with a passage from Mark Twain as writings from the time are the best way to gauge a reply to your question. A Google search of "Mark Twain" and Barber might get you more readings that this one: About Barbers - Mark Twain

My Barber is in his 70's and finished my haircuts with a trimming of my side burns, back if neck and around the ears w/ a straight razor of my own I bring along. He often comments on how sharp and smooth the edges are and how most of the barbers he worked with could not get an edge as smooth or sharp as mine. Viewing vintage razors, especially the ones that were used by barbers, you might notice heavy wear on the toe compared to the heel. My guess based on all of this is that on average the edges were not as good as we here on SRP have made a standard for shave ready. There are lots of people using the term shave ready but I would guess many fall short. A few years ago the SRP finishing hone of choice was a Norton 8k. We are miles past that now.

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Originally Posted by CStevens

Then again this may be why they put them all in a box and never used them again.

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I think the DE razors had more to do with the straights being relegated to the box than anything else, for the 'average joe' I mean.

I wish they would have left a few of those in the old box as well lol.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I think the DE razors had more to do with the straights being relegated to the box than anything else, for the 'average joe' I mean.

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It's no coincidence that full beards were more common, prior to the development of the safety razor.

The knowledge base (with instructional videos, etc.) that's been gathered here is light years beyond what any average guy would have had access to back then.

On the other hand, coticules and Eschers have certainly been in circulation for a while.

The question actually has a different answer and gets very confusing to us now..

First off "They" didn't get the razor sharp, is was sharp when they bought it, many companies relied on their reputation of having a smooth shaving edge from the box...
Most Barber's and everyday men simply "Maintained the edge of the razor, and as we have re-learned today this can be done quite easily with any of those Stones and Hones.. There are many on this forum that have razors that have been shaving smoothly for years that are Maintained with one stone or a Barber's hone..

There is also a lost profession from the old days called a Cutler, who everyone turned to, for actual "Sharpening" they were the ones that fixed blades, much like we have what we call "Honemiesters" now...

We buy blades today that are in terrible shape, and make them back into shavers, that wasn't the case when straight razors were popular, heck it wasn't even the case on this forum 5 years ago.. There were plenty of NOS razors that simply required a quick touch up to be shave ready available on e-Bay for low money..
Now we are basically scrapping the bottom of the supply barrel and it requires way more work to find razors of that caliber..

Straight razor shaving today has changed quite a bit from the past...

IMO most people couldn't maintain what we today would consider a "shave ready" edge including many barbers.

It was common for cutlers to peddle their wares and services including sharpening.

Most men didn't expect to achieve BBS everyday. Most men worked 12 hour days 6 days a week. A blade which could perform a single WTG pass which was visually clean was adequate.

Even today IMLE there are many more people honing razors than people capable of achieving "shave ready". If it shaves their face successfully.....well YMMV.

The widespread adoption of the safety razor IMHO was fueled significantly by the simplicity of the safety razor's maintenance(virtually none)and skill required for use(easily acquired).

My ancestors were skilled trades people for the most part going back two generations or more and judging by the hones and blades they left behind they didn't have the skill to maintain a straight razor.

I suspect that we are underestimating the skill and resourcefulness of our forefathers. If we could travel back to their time I expect we would find that most honed their own razors very well, with stones that many of us would consider to be too coarse.

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Originally Posted by JeffR

I suspect that we are underestimating the skill and resourcefulness of our forefathers. If we could travel back to their time I expect we would find that most honed their own razors very well, with stones that many of us would consider to be too course.

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I didn't mean to imply no one could hone a razor back in the day.........only most people. I hold the past in my hands every time I pick up one of my grandfather's tools. He was a hellofa coppersmith and an accomplished carpenter but his blades were an abomination. Most people of his generation didn't spend their leisure time hobbying with razors and I like to think if he were here now I would do him proudly to let him shave with one of my razors.

More imortantly, there was always that guys who wanted to make his knife or razor sharper than anyone elses.... I remember in the army there was always that one guy that everyone brought thier knife to get a blistering edge on.... And even now I meet people that live to show me how stinking sharp thier knives are... I imaginne it was the same with razors..... There was a Glen And a Max in every town.

I have read about every tome ever written about the Klondike,as said above Cutlers were the people that maintained all sorts of blades from axes to Razors.
In the town of Dawson they had 3 cutlers that set up shops,in one of the books they posted a fee schedual that encluded sharpening services for Knives,Axes,Ice skates,Sled runners and Straight Razors,razor sharpening was 65 cents per/blade.

I always find it interesting how as time goes by we lose such touch with what went on in the past we really have no clue and so we fill in the blanks the best we can.

So we know everyone used a razor and trying to figure out how it was maintained is no different than guys who drive a car needing maint. and being filthy inside and out and that's fine with them. Most guys took care of their own razors and some were good at it and some weren't and some got good comfortable shaves and some didn't. That's why Mr Gillette was so successful. Once his invention became known straights were put away in record numbers. Certainly some paid to get their razors sharpened by cutlers and barbers but in general they did it themselves with some old hone they acquired.

As far as razors themselves go Glen is right. We see the pieces that are who knows how many years old and have been sitting around who knows where and have been abused who knows how. How many millions of straights saw the garbage years ago.

Just think of it in modern terms and it all becomes clear, really

If I may interject my $0.02, I think it akin to the "average Joe's" ability at maintaining an automobile across the decades of the 20th century. Surely there existed a wide spectrum of ability among users of both aforementioned products, just as there is today. As this is almost certainly a universally accepted paradigm, I think that there were probably more men capable of "maintaining" a straight razor from the 1900s-1950s than were truly capable of "routine" auto maintenance during the same era.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I always find it interesting how as time goes by we lose such touch with what went on in the past we really have no clue and so we fill in the blanks the best we can.

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I agree TBS it is the filling in the blanks which intrigues me.

Example: Old civil war veterans photos which mostly show old men didn't shave much.
Most pre 1900 photos of ordinary people depict the majority of men with facial hair.
When I started shaving with a straight I learned why. It takes time and skill. Life was filled with a lot of just living.
It brought home the human reality and helped me to relate to the past.

The prosperity of our culture often serves to obscure the human realities of history and in doing so iconifies the ordinary.

It is rewarding to break things back down to a common understanding and preserve the wisdom of the past which so routinely seems to be tossed in the trash like all those razors.

I embrace modern solutions to the problems we all face but I get frustrated with change which obliterates history and tradition. We should be able to put up a parking lot without paving over paradise.

I don't care to stop and smell the coffee brewed on asphalt.

Here is a fitting story about how ignorance is bliss.

I have a friend that bought a straight razor at an antique shop. He stropped it on a strop he has for knives (bare leather), then shaved with it. He says, "it shaves good".

I would suggest that "back in the day" this was probably fairly normal occurrence...a guy gets a razor (at the store, at a sale, from his grandfather, whatever means by which young men got their first razor), they stropped it, and shaved to avoid trouble (because you probably had to shave to go to school or church in that day). They probably liked shaving about as much as we like putting on deodorant...it just had to be done.

Perhaps a local barber would sharpen a razor for a patron for a fee? Who knows...but my point is, that if you never have a SUPER sharp blade, you will shave with what you do have and conclude that it does the job...

Ive often thought this as well. When I see old black & white photos from the past, all the beards make me think that people either didn't own a decent razor, or they were dull to the point that they didn't cut the hair but rather scraped it off. It may not have been comfortable. Imagine the women..uuuuggggghh

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Originally Posted by jaswarb

I agree TBS it is the filling in the blanks which intrigues me.

Example: Old civil war veterans photos which mostly show old men didn't shave much.
Most pre 1900 photos of ordinary people depict the majority of men with facial hair.
When I started shaving with a straight I learned why. It takes time and skill. Life was filled with a lot of just living.
It brought home the human reality and helped me to relate to the past.

The prosperity of our culture often serves to obscure the human realities of history and in doing so iconifies the ordinary.

It is rewarding to break things back down to a common understanding and preserve the wisdom of the past which so routinely seems to be tossed in the trash like all those razors.

I embrace modern solutions to the problems we all face but I get frustrated with change which obliterates history and tradition. We should be able to put up a parking lot without paving over paradise.

I don't care to stop and smell the coffee brewed on asphalt.

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Originally Posted by CStevens

I can't help but wonder just how good were "average guys" at honing their razors back when there were only straight razors. I wonder this because many of the old razors you see on ebay, as well as a couple of my grandpas/great granpas razors are flat on the spines with deep scratches. If they are flat but smooth, they've obviously been honed with a smooth hone, but some of the deep scratches indicate perhaps someone tried a hone meant for pocket knives. My father told me that he can't remember my grandfathers ever even owning any barbers hones. Then again this may be why they put them all in a box and never used them again. Again, I'm not talking about a barber, or someone who done it professionally, just "average joes"

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Some of the scratches you see on old razors may not have had anything to do with the honing.
As you know, razors need to be maintained in ways other than the sharpness of their edge. Rust has been the enemy of steel since the beginning. Today we have MAAS, Mothers, Semi-Chrome, 3M wet/dry paper in dozens of grit levels, cloths & chemicals that work wonders on maintaining our steel. Some of those scratches could be from the only resources that were available to remove rust, pitting.

The audience that you are speaking to is highly concerned with the areas of honing(sometimes chasing the perfect edge), and razor maintenance. If a water spot discolors my W&B over night, holy cow, grab the Mothers. I doubt my grandfathers had this kind of love relationship with their W&B's.

I'm willing to bet that a Cutler in the 1800's would have give his wife away for a Norton 4/8.

According the Benfamin Kingsbury's "A Treatise on Razors" booklet from around 1820, it was not just the average Joe who was not accomplished honers but the barbers themselves. Sorry I don't have the link but this historical account is from a man who gives us insight on a much duller time for the razor...

edit link http://books.google.com/books?id=dT4...page&q&f=false

Edit edit Napolean Lablanc booklet was the one I was thinking about but the first link is interesting too. Here it is

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34507911/1...s-Razor-Honing

Mr. Lablanc takes several paragraphs to say YMMV concering tools and techniques........somethings never change.

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Originally Posted by JeffR

I suspect that we are underestimating the skill and resourcefulness of our forefathers. If we could travel back to their time I expect we would find that most honed their own razors very well, with stones that many of us would consider to be too course.

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It could be the personal degree of honing expertice depended on the availability of a cutler.