Poor Honing Job?

Hello,

I am hoping you guys can give me your opinion on my W&B I just recieved back from honing. I sent it to a well known vintage safety and straight razor site and got it back early last week. Although when I took a close look at it I started to have some concerns about the honing job they did. The bevel is uneven and wavy with each side of the razor having a different pattern of wear.

The presentation side with the etching has more hone wear on the heel and in the center, but very little on the toe. Although the toe-end spine shows alot of wear.

*Note: the pictures do not fully show how wavy the bevel is in person; they were taken with a phone cam.
Attachment 106771


The reverse side has an opposite pattern of wear. The bevel is very high on the toe and hardly noticable on the heel.

Attachment 106772


Is this normal? The two other razor that I have that are honed have a perfectly even and straight bevel; this does not look right to me.

Is this something that I should have fixed or talk to the site about?

Thanks for the help,
Chance

Yes, old razors like that quite often have a bit uneven bevel all along the blade.
More important is, how did it shave?

The bevel and the uniformity of that bevel, is controlled by the geometry of the razor, and the old hone wear that might be present..

If you wanted a small even bevel, they would have had to adjust that geometry by using tape because of the old hone wear on that razor,, some use it, some don't..

+1 on what Glen and Birnando said. Shave with it and then make a judgement on the honing.

The more I look at those pictures, the more I am convinced someone ground away a fair amount of the blade to remove a chip.
The shape of the bevel wear doesn't match the spine, the position of the etching is below center, and the tang seems large.

That would explain the geometry as well - if the curvature after grinding isn't exactly how it was from the factory in relation to the spine, the bevel will be uneven.

How is the shave?

Yes, how's the shave?

One more vote for : How's the shave?

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Originally Posted by HNSB

The more I look at those pictures, the more I am convinced someone ground away a fair amount of the blade to remove a chip.
The shape of the bevel wear doesn't match the spine, the position of the etching is below center, and the tang seems large.

That would explain the geometry as well - if the curvature after grinding isn't exactly how it was from the factory in relation to the spine, the bevel will be uneven.

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Well, when I sent them the razor there was no chips. So unless something happened to it in their care, I don't think that would be the case. Thank you for your input though.

I guess I understand what everyone is saying in regards to the uneven geometry causing uneven hone wear but the razor looked fine to me before. Although I've never done any honing...

Here is a pic after my restoration and before I sent it out:


Attachment 106933
As for how it shaves... Its ok. I'm still a semi-beginner so I don't have many other razors to compare it too and my two other razors that are shave ready don't shave as well as I have expected either, so maybe I'm just doing something wrong! :( Although it definitely does not shave like my double edge razors.

I did not strop it before my first shave so as to make sure my stropping wouldn't have any affect on the sharpness. And the first shave was mediocre. It doesn't cut through heavy growth like my safetys.

Strop it and try again.

I am pretty much a newb when it comes to razors and shaving, so discount my words if you like. However I have honed a few blades now (12, I think) and repaired a few along the way, and I have worked many other types of blades over the last few decades.

It is truly exceptional to find a blade that is perfectly uniform such that it can achieve premium sharpness AND have beautifully symmetrical bevels that are uniform in appearance in macro photos.

Compound this with the reality that we are discussing a blade that has an unknown history of perhaps 100 years of use (give or take) and perhaps honed by several different sets of hands with varying skill levels...and perhaps the razor came into some damage at some point during these (possibly) generations of use...

I would suggest that if it shaves well, we should all be happy to enjoy it for what it is. What a remarkable piece you have there!!!

I use to think about sending out a razor or two to have done professionally. But the more I read and see, I'm thinking that I'm doing ok!(:-)

Well considering you have three shave ready razors and tell us you only get an "ok" shave from any of them, I would suggest you just need some more practice shaving.

The primary learning experience you should take from the thread, IMHO, is that shave readiness and aesthetics don't have much to do with each other. Or more specifically, that the look of the edge, is not a factor in deciding if a razor is shave ready. Unless you're a long time honer who's made it a habit to study your bevels under microscopes. :)

What I meant about a chip - it may have been someone who owned the blade before you got it. Heck, it could have been someone in 1875...

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Originally Posted by tri33

Here is a pic after my restoration and before I sent it out:

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What did you do to restore it?

Like Unit I am a total newbie to honing so again disregard what I say at will. I have honed a few of my old razors and some have bevels that vary in width along the length and some don't. Those that do have a wavy bevel likely have uneven spine wear from previous honing s or the blade is warped a little. Regardless both the ones with an even width and wavy width bevels shave well.

Bob

The way I view honing is the process of making two sides of a bit of metal meet at a "narrow enough" distance from each other. And then of course smoothing those sides comes into play with razors.

So what the bevels look like really is not indicative of how sharp an edge might be. What you could be (and most likely are) seeing is not a bad honing problem (per se), but rather a bad grinding or razor geometry problem.

As many have said now, good edges can and do frequently coexist with wavy and uneven bevels, particularly on the wedgier grinds. In fact, it is reasonably rare to find even bevels in these cases, particularly on vintage razors.

There are of course situations where the bad grind, hone wear, or messed up geometry effects the ability of the razor to take an edge, but you do not know that until and unless you test the edge. In those cases experienced restorative honers can sometimes fix the geometry on the hones, or perhaps regrind the blade. You can also do this for aesthetic reasons but to me that is a pointless exercise if it shaves well.

James.

I agree with the bevel not really mattering in the 'grand scheme'. I have a 5/8 wedge that has a slight bend. On one side, the bevel is widest at the toe and heel, almost non-existant in the middle. On the other side of the blade the middle shows heavy wear, yet the toe and heel are almost untouched. It's not my best shaver, but it'll pass....the point is, blades don't need straight bevels...or blades... :shrug:

I think if you are that new to STr8 razor shaviing there might be a better way to go, to help get the fewest variables working at the same time.
Proposal: Buy yourself a Dovo Shavetter or similar type of DE blade razor.
Learn to shave with a decent blade right from the pack and remember to keep your angle of shave ver close to the face, not high up.
Then when you are more sure of yourself, start with freshly honed razors, I suggest one of the honer's from this site they have one heck of a lot of experience and should do a Bl*()dy great job for you then.

Just my 'man in the street' opinion, YMMV!

Thank you for reading my pratle, have a great shave on all of us!!!!

tinkersd

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

Well considering you have three shave ready razors and tell us you only get an "ok" shave from any of them, I would suggest you just need some more practice shaving.

The primary learning experience you should take from the thread, IMHO, is that shave readiness and aesthetics don't have much to do with each other. Or more specifically, that the look of the edge, is not a factor in deciding if a razor is shave ready. Unless you're a long time honer who's made it a habit to study your bevels under microscopes. :)

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Your probably right. It is just that I have no clue what I am doing wrong!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HNSB

What I meant about a chip - it may have been someone who owned the blade before you got it. Heck, it could have been someone in 1875...




What did you do to restore it?

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I hand sanded 400-1500 and polished it.

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Originally Posted by tri33

I hand sanded 400-1500 and polished it.

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That is the gentlest approach & recommended for new restorers but bear in mind that uneven sanding can also affect the geometry.
Do you have any before pics ? You might find the razor was not so straight in the first place as is common with old Sheffields. Nonetheless their popularity shows a good shave can be coaxed from them.

Just so you don't feel like the Lone Ranger .... see these instructions from Boker and Torrey from a hundred or so years ago ..... referencing inexperienced shavers ...... :angel:

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Thank you Jimmy, wisdom is timeless!

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

That is the gentlest approach & recommended for new restorers but bear in mind that uneven sanding can also affect the geometry.
Do you have any before pics ? You might find the razor was not so straight in the first place as is common with old Sheffields. Nonetheless their popularity shows a good shave can be coaxed from them.

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I do have a few before pics. It didn't seem as if the geometry was off but I could be wrong...

Attachment 107375Attachment 107376

There seems to be a slight tapering of the bevels to my eye. You have to realise edge restoration will grow those bevels & accentuate the irregularity.