Lapping A New Norton 4k/8k

Hello All,

Quick yes/no question here. I am new to the world of straight razors, and really want to teach myself how to hone properly. So I bought a cheapo Gold Dollar Hollow-ground razor to practice on, and I also bought a Norton 4k/8k waterstone. My question is: Is it necessary to flatten and/or lap the Norton when I unbox it? Or does it come pretty flat from the factory? My plan is to acquire a flattening stone as well, but I haven't ordered one yet. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

I would love to become proficient at honing (hoping to make it a new hobby of mine!), so hopefully I'm off to the right start!

Cheers,

John

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPYmf...ature=g-user-u

The quick reply would be 'Yes'
I use a DMT325 as do most of the members here, I think
Take a look at gssixgun's honing vidoes on YouTube and follow his advice.
That's how I learned to hone and don't be surprised if you get a good shave from the GD - I did

Hi jpcwon. I think most here will tell you it is necessary to lap a new Norton 4/8K and I would agree from my experience. I thought maybe I wouldn't have to when I got my new Norton. The first couple of honings I did were not great. Of course, some of that may have been my inexperience. But I tried lapping using my DMT 325 (red) 4x10 benchstone following the recommendations here. It was significantly out of true, and subsequent honing activity went much better.

I agree with the above post about lapping them out of the box. I also find that I get better results if I lap them periodically or even before I use them "if only a few passes with a flattening stone". The norton 8k especially seems to work better with a fresh surface. It doesn't seem to take much to glaze that one and even the slightest glaze seems to affect its optimum performance. You picked a really good set of stones to start honing on since they give pretty consistent results and work really well IMHO.

When I started (and I'm still new to it) I didn't know this but I'll pass it along. You will want to lap the hell out it for more than just ensuring that its flat. You're also smoothing out the stone. I didn't know this at the time but you're supposed to try to strip off about 1/8 of an inch of the 4k side until it feels smooth. The Norton 4k comes fairly gritty and it needs to be lapped to smooth out the surface. If you don't, you won't be able to polish the edge at all.

Lapping is beneficial or necessary because it flattens the stone honing surface, removes the as manufactured "glazed" surface of a new stone to expose fresh grit, and smooths the porous scratched stone surface.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

When I started (and I'm still new to it) I didn't know this but I'll pass it along. You will want to lap the hell out it for more than just ensuring that its flat. You're also smoothing out the stone. I didn't know this at the time but you're supposed to try to strip off about 1/8 of an inch of the 4k side until it feels smooth. The Norton 4k comes fairly gritty and it needs to be lapped to smooth out the surface. If you don't, you won't be able to polish the edge at all.

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1/8 of an inch ??
Sounds like a bit much to lap off of a new Norton, but I could be wrong. :shrug:

It took me about 10 minutes of easy lapping with a 325 to bring mine into play.

The 8K may take a little more lapping than some stones, but lapping off an 1/8 of an inch is excessive and unnecessary. I've had mine for almost two years now, have lapped it a bunch of times and doubt I have taken that much off it yet. It works just fine.

Well I definitely appreciate the advice! I actually went ahead and ordered a Norton Flattening Stone which will hopefully get me going in the right direction, but if a DMT325 is what you recommend then I will probably go that route as well. As I said I am just starting out, but my goal is to hopefully build a collection of nice straights that I have honed myself. Gotta start somewhere, though!

Thx again for the replies!

For those of you that didnt have to lap much off the 4K side of your Norton.....congratulations, you have been fortunate. My Norton needed to have about an eighth of an inch lapped off the 4K before it was smooth enough. Mine had quite a bit of porosity and texture in the outer most layer.

I guess the right answer is "keep lapping until the surface is smooth and free from roughness, and don't be surprised if you have to take off quite a bit".

BTW, the DMT 325 is a really good choice for a lapping stone. I have the Norton lapping stone, a DMT, sandpaper and a Shapton DGLP. The DMT is probably the sweet spot in the group. The Shapton is better, but there are definitely diminishing returns at its price point.

Edit: One more thing, don't forget to put a small radius on the edges of the stone after you lap it.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

1/8 of an inch ??
Sounds like a bit much to lap off of a new Norton, but I could be wrong. :shrug:

It took me about 10 minutes of easy lapping with a 325 to bring mine into play.

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I didn't exactly measure it and maybe exaggerated some. The point being, it seemed that I lapped away a lot more than I thought would ever be necessary with a brand new stone. I bought a Naniwai 1k at the same time and couldn't figure out why the 4k felt so much more rough than the 1k. I hadn't smoothed it out yet. My honing mentor here, Stefan, told me to get busy with the DMT and not to be afraid to strip some of the 4k off. Then things started to make sense.

Yes, I can see there being a difference from Norton to Norton, nothing is made "Exactly" alike. Just when I saw the 1/8 of an inch reference, I actually took a ruler to my Norton & said, "Holy Cow!".

I'm glad you got her up & running, though.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Yes, I can see there being a difference from Norton to Norton, nothing is made "Exactly" alike. Just when I saw the 1/8 of an inch reference, I actually took a ruler to my Norton & said, "Holy Cow!".

I'm glad you got her up & running, though.

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My reaction was the same when I was told how much to peel off of it. So much to learn. But with each discovery I know we're preserving what was almost lost knowledge. It's important that someone keeps these traditions alive. I guess that is our charge.

Some enlightenment

Norton 4k

Made in USA
Made in Mexico
Made in Italy

There are many different recommendations for lapping because these are all slightly different in smoothness

The earlier 4k's were the USA ones and required near zero lapping, then they changed to the Mexico made and the stones required near 1/8 in to get right, these improved over time, most of what you find now are Italty made and require very little lapping again... basically lap until smooth as mentioned above..

Thanks for the info, gssixgun! I actually cancelled my order for the Norton Flattening Stone and went with the DMT 325 instead, after hearing the recommendations here...glad I did! After watching your videos, I'm very excited to start my endeavour into the world of honing!

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

1/8 of an inch ??
Sounds like a bit much to lap off of a new Norton, but I could be wrong. :shrug:

It took me about 10 minutes of easy lapping with a 325 to bring mine into play.

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I agree with this. You lap the 4K side until the glaze/orange peel ( if any) is off and any surface pitting is gone. This will vary from stone to stone so do whatever it takes. Just be sure to not allow the slurry to build up if your using a DMT 325 or else it will wear off the nickel plating that holds the diamonds in place.

Edit: just saw the rest of the posts.

In regards to the GD, you will probably have to modify the shoulder a little in order to get the edge on the hone. The upside to it is you get to practice your dremel skills. The GD will take a nice edge after the necessary modifications though.

How bad do you think the norton lapping stone is? I have been using the Norton Lapping Stone (and only that one) since i got the kit a few years back, but haven't tried anything else; I *think* it's been giving me good results, but don't have anything to compare it to.

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Originally Posted by jamesm

How bad do you think the norton lapping stone is? I have been using the Norton Lapping Stone (and only that one) since i got the kit a few years back, but haven't tried anything else; I *think* it's been giving me good results, but don't have anything to compare it to.

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It's not uncommon to lap the lapping stone.

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Originally Posted by jamesm

How bad do you think the norton lapping stone is? I have been using the Norton Lapping Stone (and only that one) since i got the kit a few years back, but haven't tried anything else; I *think* it's been giving me good results, but don't have anything to compare it to.

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Personally, I think it is junk. The reason is that it is very soft. Much softer than othe rnorton stones. So any mistakes during use will dish it out.
Given the small difference in price, I'd buy a DMT325 grit diamond plate. That will stay flat, and last a lifetime. The norton lapping plate is ok for using, but you have to chck regularly whether it is still flat or not.

I have a DMT sharpening stone and the Norton Lapping Stone. The DMT diamond embedded plate sharpening stone is much better than the Norton man made Lapping Stone. I never use the Norton because it is course, messy with sandy grit, slow, and uneven. The DMT plate is flat, cuts fast, is less messy, and is very effective.

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Originally Posted by sheajohnw

I have a DMT sharpening stone and the Norton Lapping Stone. The DMT diamond embedded plate sharpening stone is much better than the Norton man made Lapping Stone. I never use the Norton because it is course, messy with sandy grit, slow, and uneven. The DMT plate is flat, cuts fast, is less messy, and is very effective.

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I agree. The DMT 325 is invaluable if you're going to be honing with any regularity. I bought a dedicated Stone Holder for it which makes it a LOT easier to use. I even bought a little DMT sharpening card for my coticule bouts. It works awesome!! :)

Here's a link to the Stone Holder.

Amazon.com: Steelex D1091 Sharpening Stone Holder: Home Improvement

Thanks for the advice. I have noticed that the coarseness of the norton have left some scratches on my stones, but they have seemed flat. I will consider upgrading to the DMT, especially if i upgrade to a japanese polishing stone because i know the norton won't cut it. For the Norton set, Ill flatten my flattening stone just to be sure. I was always under the assumption that due to the softness they would tend to self correct to an extent.

Just ordered a DMT 325 and I am looking forward to fixing my hones. by reading this I may have some flattening to do!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamesm

Thanks for the advice. I have noticed that the coarseness of the norton have left some scratches on my stones, but they have seemed flat. I will consider upgrading to the DMT, especially if i upgrade to a japanese polishing stone because i know the norton won't cut it. For the Norton set, Ill flatten my flattening stone just to be sure. I was always under the assumption that due to the softness they would tend to self correct to an extent.

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If your gonna get a DMT get the 325/1200 combo stone. One side for lapping one side for bevel set. 2 birds with one stone