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So I've got a King 6000 stone and just got a 12k Chinese stone from woodcraft. I can get the edge very sharp of the 6k stone but when I move to the 12k it seems to lose its edge. I've lapped both of the stone flat and let them soak in water before honing. I've used the 12k with a slurry, straight water and dry but my edge still seems to lose its sharpness. Any ideas?
Have you actually tested the edges? The finer edge will feel smoother because the teeth created by the rougher stone are worn away, making it less grabby. As you progress past this (crox, stropping) the edge will get so fine it starts getting grabby again, but because you can't thumb test it without it sinking into your skin.
don't use slurry water should be fine tere slow hones so maybe 50 to 100 laps
6k to chinese natural (no one actually knows the exact grit, b/c each one is different) is a pretty descent size jump. You can start w/ a very light slurry for about 5 laps and dilute every 3-5 laps for a total of about 20-30; it really shouldn't be taking 100 laps to finish a razor regardless of what stone you are using. When you come off the chinese shave w/ the razor, don't strop just shave. If the edge is better then it's your stropping dulling the edge (could be too much pressure or too much slack in the strop, lifting the spine, ect.). If it is the same or worse, then look at your honing technique: too much pressure on the stone, not enough pressure to the point the edge barely touches and really isn't doing anything but grinding at the very edge of the bevel. You should have the weight of the blade on the stone, not adding weight with your hand or arm, but not using so little that the water doesn't ride the edge.
I tested it. I attempted to shave with it and it wouldnt shave. I also raked the razor up my arm without touching the skin and it wasn't grabbing or slicing hairs off. I don't have any crox but I was hopping to get the full potential from the stone before go that route. I'm still new at this so thanks for the help so far. :)
As noted, 6k to that Chinese stone is a big jump. And, as also noted, that Chinese hone is a slow one.
In order to make sure you are comparing apples to apples, do the exact same test that you use after the 6k after you go to the Chinese. If there really is no improvement, my first guess is that you are not doing enough on the Chinese.
I always used my Chinese without slurry, but you may want to start with a light slurry to help speed things up a bit. Make sure you use either a piece of the Chinese OR something that won't break down (like diamond plate or something) to raise the slurry; that way you will only have very fine particles in your slurry. You mention using it dry also, which I have never done.
Now, I have heard that there can be "bad" Chinese stones. I have never seen one, but I have only tried... less than 10.
Totally forgot, but when I saw Glen's tag under holli4's comment it reminded me. Gssixgun has a video on youtube of a one stone honing on a chinese nat. Check it out, might give you some ideas, or even give you a visual to see what you might be doing wrong. Good video whether you use a chinese or not though.
I too got my C12K PHIG from Woodcraft, I lucked out with a great hone.
I jump from a Norton 8K.
No slurry, lots of water, never dry.
I have two razors of widely different grinds, wedge & possibly a full hollow, that are maintained strictly with a PHIG.
Each was finished with over 140 strokes, to obtain a really nice shave. They are slow cutters.
My first experiences with the PHIG was around 35 to 40 strokes, not good results.
Craig "eleblu05" taught me how to get the most out of my PHIG.
**Note**
I use a DMT325 with 600 3M wet/dry wrapped around it to clean the PHIG of metal transfer every 20 laps. A PITA, maybe, but I want the most out of my stone.
I picked up another PHIG last week, can't wait to use it.
I too have the Woodcraft C12K stone. All I ever could do with it was dull the razor after coming off of the Norton 4/8K. I gave up on it and bought a Naniwa 12K instead. Now that's a stone! The Norton 4/8 with the Nani 12K is a perfect combination.
I would recommend going from the 6k stone to a hard back stropping on newspaper (my guess 30K+ grit) until the edge is noticeably mirror bright and then on to you hanging strop. Newspaper works pretty fast and will let you know right away if your 12K chinese stone is worth using and do so without spending a bunch of money on another stone.
When I first got my C12k/PHIG I noticed that some razors would suction to the hone alot and if I stopped or slowed down the edge would "dig" into the stone meaning the bevel would stick to the hone and make the spine want to lift off and ruin the edge. I found that constant speed and alittle more water stopped it from wanting to do that. Once I got the hang of the stone I was able to get really nice edges from it.
double post, sorry..............
Help me understand this, please:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnM
Jump from a 6K , to a newspaper that you rate at 30K, then that will tell me that it's O.K. to drop down to my C12K ?? and that tells me if my C12K is good ???
and they wonder why people get confused
Well I think there's a bunch of info giving going on around here, so here's some questions for the OP. How long have you been using a straight razor? How long have you been sharpening, or practicing sharpening straight razors? Have you read any guides on honing? How many "shave ready" razors have you handled? What is "shave ready"?
The answers to those questions may very well send this thread in an entirely different direction.
I"m confused, got it along with my birthmark.
One more question have you ever got a shave ready razor off your king ?
I've had three C12K's, two from Woodcrafters and one from the Polish seller on Ebay.
They are all different with the Ebay one being the best, it will give a REALLY good edge, one from WC was just average, the other fairly good
You might have to try a few to get a really good one
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodb
+1
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...nese-hone.html
So I found gssixgun's video on YouTube and honed my WM Elliot along with the video. Low and behold this joker is sharp now. Afterwards I wrapped some newspaper and a peice of glass from work and stropped on that. The. I laid my leather strop down on my little table and stropped on that. She's sharp now. I repeated the same proccess on my Shumate 35 with even better results. Since I attempted to shave with a subpar razor earlier today I'm going to wait till tommorow until the real shave test. I'm getting excited now this is awesome. Thanks for all your help!!!
You didn't mention how much success you've had with a finishing stone before, but did say you're new at this, so is this a first attempt? I'm also new, and got thrust into honing after my very first shave. I managed to nick the strop and roll the edge severely, so I had to start with a 1K to get past the chunk that fell out of the blade and then go to the 4K. Once it looked good under a 10x loupe, I did about 15% more on the Norton 4K and 8K than Lynn suggested in his pyramid progression, due to the fact that my Dovo is a stainless. THEN, after 30 on my 16K Shapton, I wasn't satisfied with the edge at all! So I did 30 more on the Shapton, but this time I tried to start light and end even lighter on the pressure. That seemed to do the trick.