To bevel or not to bevel...

Hello, I have a 5/8 Dovo with under 100 shaves on it. I have had it honed twice by members on this site. I messed up my edge by bad stropping and made it worse by trying to freshen it up on my Arkansas Surgical Black. Don't think it made it better. I got the Norton 250/1k, 4k/8k water stone kit for Christmas. I have lapped all the stones including the ceramic flattening stone. I practiced honing on my H. Boker and it is not up to spec but I suspect that one is more challenging to hone b/c of the blade being thicker, almost a wedge. Also it's a smiling blade. I did 3 passes on the 1k grit and then did passes from the 4k to the 8k going 20/20, 15,15, 10/10, 5/5, 1/5, 1/7 and then 20 on the Arkansas Black. The shave wasn't great, but I haven't ever had a great shave on that razor.
My question is, w/out a loupe, how do I know if I need to rebevel my Dovo and if I do it how do I know if it's there? How many passes on the 250 does it take to set a bevel? I am making a New Year's resolution to use my straights and I now have everything (except honing and shaving skill) to make it all happen. Any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated!

250 is way too low for bevel setting. It is for restoration only ( removing chips etc.). Jumping from it to the 4k is way too much of a jump. Your bevel still probably is not set totally. You need to use the 1k for the bevel & then only go on to the 4/8 when the razor shaves arm hair heel to toe.

For a good procedure, look up Lynn's "40 circles" routine--it's a pretty much foolproof way to set a bevel. THen & only then do your regular honing on the Norton. Good luck!

It does help, thanks! I meant I started on the 1k... It's on the other side of the 250. I have not used the 250, just the 1k! Thanks!

Do not use the 220, it's for removing lots of steel mainly for restortion or chip removal purposes. Start with the 1k. Look at gssixguns you tube vids on honing with the nortons, watch them while you are honing, but watch it atleast twice before starting, he gives good explanations during the vid.

oftenfacetious,

When I am in doubt, I always reset the bevel - you know where you are then.

As has often been said here at SRP, the bevel is the foundation of a good edge.

Use a black felt marker on the razors edge - about 1/4 " should be enough - even without a loupe, you can see when all the marker has been reomved from the very edge.

Please have a peek at these video tutorials by 'GSSixgun' - they are excellent :)

gssixgun / Gemstar Customs - YouTube

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

The Dovo:

This razor was shaving well then you dulled it by stropping? Then attempted honing on an Arkansas stone? Without looking at the razor I would guess that the razor needs to be reset. But I do have some questions.

How did you prep the Arkie for razors? They are notoriously difficult to flatten, and need to be really smoothed out to finish razors.

How did you dull the razor in the first place? or How's your stropping? Youv'e shaved a hundred times so you must have had some practice. I don't expect you to be an expert but you can work on getting a good motion and preventing scenarios like this.

The Boker: That sounds like a difficult razor to hone. Maybe save for later or send it out?

On setting bevels:

Setting a bevel can take a little work or a lot, so I don't think anyone can tell you how many passes to do. Except I can tell you to start with a number like 20 and test every time you do that amount. Or you can do sets of circles followed by x-strokes and test after each set.

A bevel is set when it passes a few different tests, not just one. Thumbnail, thumbpad, arm hair. Pass two of those and you will be good.

Looking at the bevel is great too. A loupe is invaluable to me, but you can see something with the naked eye too.

One of the most important things you can try is putting magic marker along the edge then do 1 full x-stroke up and down the hone. Repeat untill you can get the whole edge on one stroke. Untill you are doing that on your razor, then your honing will be practically useless. Once you get a nice even x-stroke, then your honing will be effective at creating a shaving edge.

Michael

Like it has been previously stated use a felt pen and check out what you have. See about getting a loupe in the future they are extremely valuable for starting out. I would start our with the 8k that way you can see what shape the bevel is in without creating more work for yourself. Just do 30 or 40 laps without very much pressure and see what you have. If you see the need, continue to drop down one stone till you are where you want to be. The problem that I had when starting out is that there was a tendency to think the worst and over do it. Once you drop down to a 1K that is your new starting point and you must work your way all the way back up through the progression. Experience is the best teacher but getting there without doing a lot of damage and creating problems for oneself is sometimes the hard part.

Welcome to honing. It can be frustrating but also very rewarding.



Take Care,
R

Michael,
The Dovo: I had "professionally" honed previously but due to deep scratches when it was returned to me I decided that I would not send it out again. It is a bit ornate and decorated with gold etching... I would have hoped for more care to have been taken. It was shaving good for a while and then needed more than just stropping to shave so I used some paste on a paddle strop. That is when it started pulling. That was the beginning of the end. That was the first time I used the paste on that razor. It was green paste but I am unsure of the grit or grade. I got it from a member and was told it was good for "refreshing' the blade between hones. I used the Arkansas to try and smooth out the edge after the green paste.
Prepping the Arkansas was 8 patterns across some really rough grit sandpaper and then using some pretty rough grit tool hones across it as well. I then smoothed it out with some very high grit wet/dry sandpaper. I did the grid w/ pencil thing and it appears to be flat. It was a very long and arduous task. I hope I did it right.
So far as stropping goes, Sometimes I take my hanging strop and lay it on the counter other times I just leave it hanging. It's an Illinois #206. I also have some no name rough draw raw leather that I occasionally use. I think I didn't have enough tension and hosed my edge. Then using the paste on the paddle strop I saw inconsistencies on my edge so I tried the Arkansas. It was a whole series of bad moves on my part that brought my shaving to a stop.
So now I have the Norton set of water stones. I have a jeweler's loupe being mailed to me now. I will prolly wait in the Boker b/c it is more difficult and requires more skill than I possess. I will do my Dovo again when the loupe comes. I am not wanting to send it out for professional honing due to the scratches and hone wear done to it when I sent it out in the past. I put tape on it when I tried honing but others may not have. It was brand new Buffalo handle gold etched decorated straight. Now it has scratches and hone wear... kind of bums me out.
Thanks for the advice and your response!

I would not ever use anything lower than 1K on a razor, especially a full hollow is a very sensible edge.
Instead I wound go with a fine diamond plate for chip removal, it's fast enough and you have better control.

oftenfacetious,
That sounds like really bad manners to me, I've worked with jewellery before and I have had my share of fuckups,
but then it's time to show your a man proud of your work and refund or in some other way make the customer happy.
If I sharpen for someone other than myself I always check what is ok to do, even if the only way to fix it is to do something drastic it's the customers choice.
I feel sad for the "professional" work you had done on your Dovo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I would not ever use anything lower than 1K on a razor, especially a full hollow is a very sensible edge.
Instead I wound go with a fine diamond plate for chip removal, it's fast enough and you have better control.

oftenfacetious,
That sounds like really bad manners to me, I've worked with jewellery before and I have had my share of fuckups,
but then it's time to show your a man proud of your work and refund or in some other way make the customer happy.
If I sharpen for someone other than myself I always check what is ok to do, even if the only way to fix it is to do something drastic it's the customers choice.
I feel sad for the "professional" work you had done on your Dovo.

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my first honing experience today was very clinical.

used micro film

1.5k 1.8k. 2.5k 5k. 8k and 12k


managed to get a shave ready razor on it. ill have a shave later and see how i did. if i get a lot more razors i might get some more hones but because micro film is so cheap and i only have 3 razors so far ill stick to the cheap alternative

I was in a very similar situation after I knocked my Dovo on the tap and had to take it in to get honed (like, two weeks after buying it). It came back with scratches all over it; I expressed my displeasure and left it with them again to 'sort out' but had it returned with polish marks all over it instead...and you could still see the scratches!

I was, however, lucky enough to take it back to the guy I bought it from (at their other shop) and he was kind enough to replace it for me!

That's the incident that prompted me to buy my own hones. Since then, I went to refresh the edge without tape so I didn't have to reset the bevel and everything, and I scratched it myself!