Noob with a Kamisori - help?

Hi, All;

I've been a lurker for a long time, and I finally took the plunge and got a Kamisori along with hones for Xmas. I've never used a straight razor before, so I'm very excited!

The Kamisori is beautiful. It's second hand but without much hone wear. It was listed as a Kanetaka.

My hones are the Norton 4000/8000 combo along with a Naniwa lapping plate. I also got the SRD modular paddle strop, which is the best product idea I've seen in a long time. I've used 1/2um and 1/4um diamond spray on its two felt pads.

The razor was listed as shave-ready, but it failed every test I tried (hanging hair, forearm hair, thumb pad). So I decided to hone it before trying it out. I watched a lot of videos on honing and went to work.

I first tried honing using a typical approach used on western razors, without any success of course. I honed the hell out of the stamped side trying to get a decent sized bevel. In the end I went back to the videos and saw gssixgun's pair on honing kamisoris. Based on that I did several 7:1 sets on the 4000 just to rehabilitate the bevel, then several 7:1 on the 8000 to hone it. What a difference! Finally it was popping hairs on my arm, but still wasn't really grabbing the thumb pad. I went to the paddle strop and basically tried using it as a hone: several 10:1 stropping sets using the 1/2um diamond felt, then the same on the 1/4um felt. The bevel is even and REALLY shiny now, although the results are qualitatively the same as after the 8000 stone. Still completely fails the hanging hair test.

I felt it was time to try a shave so I did a bunch of stropping on the leather paddle, lathered up, and shaved using the stamped side against my face ...

... OUCH!!

The blade tugs hair and scrapes my face like the rim of a rusty can! Something is very wrong with my honing, so I need some advice. My guess is that I either did more damage than I expected in the first honing attempt, or I need a 12000 hone instead of the diamond on felt.

I'll post some pix of the bevels this evening.

Advice?

Don't have much exp. with Kami's, but I'm just curious; did you lap the Norton adequately?

Yeah, I lapped it well. Even took the edges down.

Cool...so we can cross that off the list of possible root causes... :)

First off, Welcome to SRP and congarts on your first razor!!!

I have no experience honing a kamisori but it sounds like you are on the right track. I know on western razors you should be able to shave comfortably off of an 8K edge. You might have a decent edge but it may just be your technique that is holding you back right now.

You kind of jumped into a bunch of new and difficult things all at once so it will take some time to get it all sorted out.

My advice is to send your kamisori to someone who can hone it properly and at least you can take that out of the equation. Once you know that is taken care of the rest is technique in shaving, stropping, lathering, etc.

Hello and welcome to SRP the most informative site ever. Second kamisoris require high lvl stones to hone 8k is not high enough to shapen it I've tried as well and I had to get it sent off to be properly honed and the bevel may not be properly set as well.

There are at least two threads that contain lists of independant threads dealing with the care and feeding of Kamisori. This is the only one I could find right now Link

A couple of observations; I believe that you will do better with the more curved (stamped) side away from your face. Some users use both sides, but the more traditional way is to use only one side. Also, it sounds like you have pretty much trashed the edge of the razor and it requires rehoning. That said, i would send it off to one of the guys with extensive Kamisori honing experience. Believe me, more than one of these razors has been damaged by improper honing.... And that includes honing by guys at the competent pro/serious enthusiast level. There's more to it than a few x strokes down the hone. I don't mean to imply that you cant do it eventually, but some study and a good baseline will be helpful.

Stick with it, using a Kamisori is a great experience IMO; well worth the learning curve.

have you test shaved with the razor??
8k finish should be OK for starters, but to get the best out of a razor like that you will need to go higher and not on pastes, but on stone (s)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djo

Hi, All;

I've been a lurker for a long time, and I finally took the plunge and got a Kamisori along with hones for Xmas. I've never used a straight razor before, so I'm very excited!

The Kamisori is beautiful. It's second hand but without much hone wear. It was listed as a Kanetaka.

My hones are the Norton 4000/8000 combo along with a Naniwa lapping plate. I also got the SRD modular paddle strop, which is the best product idea I've seen in a long time. I've used 1/2um and 1/4um diamond spray on its two felt pads.

The razor was listed as shave-ready, but it failed every test I tried (hanging hair, forearm hair, thumb pad). So I decided to hone it before trying it out. I watched a lot of videos on honing and went to work.


I first tried honing using a typical approach used on western razors, without any success of course. I honed the hell out of the stamped side trying to get a decent sized bevel. In the end I went back to the videos and saw gssixgun's pair on honing kamisoris. Based on that I did several 7:1 sets on the 4000 just to rehabilitate the bevel, then several 7:1 on the 8000 to hone it. What a difference! Finally it was popping hairs on my arm, but still wasn't really grabbing the thumb pad. I went to the paddle strop and basically tried using it as a hone: several 10:1 stropping sets using the 1/2um diamond felt, then the same on the 1/4um felt. The bevel is even and REALLY shiny now, although the results are qualitatively the same as after the 8000 stone. Still completely fails the hanging hair test.

I felt it was time to try a shave so I did a bunch of stropping on the leather paddle, lathered up, and shaved using the stamped side against my face ...

... OUCH!!

The blade tugs hair and scrapes my face like the rim of a rusty can! Something is very wrong with my honing, so I need some advice. My guess is that I either did more damage than I expected in the first honing attempt, or I need a 12000 hone instead of the diamond on felt.

I'll post some pix of the bevels this evening.

Advice?

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I marked some issues as I saw them...

Just from reading, my guess is that the edge is all over the place after that.. The absolute biggest mistake was at the very beginning when you tried all the tests without ever trying to shave first....
Honing razors is a learned skill, honing a Kamisori is a passion, maintaining a Kamisori is easy, but that initial set up is something that takes time and experience.. It is best learned after you have learned to maintain a properly set up Kamisori edge...

Kamisori do not have the same mass or function as a western razor they require a very keen edge to shave properly,, on western styles I am a huge advocate that anything beyond an 8k is not not really needed, it is just the cherry on the cake.. With Kamisori I would not say that, I believe they need a much higher level of keeness and smoothness...
You need the blade set up properly, then you need to learn to shave with it, you need to learn how to maintain it later down the road and finally, much later you need to learn to set up your second one :)

If you want to read about how to traditionally hone a kamisori you should read Iwasakis paper about it.
JimR has translated it and you can find it here; Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori: Updated. | Eastern Smooth: The Blog
Every time I read it I find something new.
So kudos to Jim, were ever you are and thanks to Iwasakisan!

Which side of the city are you on? I can lend you a razor while yours is out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thisisclog

Which side of the city are you on? I can lend you a razor while yours is out.

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Very generous!
I've been shaving with a Mach 3 for years, so I can continue until I get the Kamisori in shape.

Here are a few pics of the Kamisori...

Attachment 116993Attachment 116994Attachment 116995Attachment 116996Attachment 116997

Gorgeous razor I'm sure someone with more experience can help