Honing a 8/8 Mastro Livi RWL 34 kamisori razor

Hello people,

I've had this wonderful Mastro Livi RWL 34 kamisori about 4 months now, and the other day it failed the hair test. So i gave it a couple more laps on the pasted Livi loom strop, and it still failed the test. After that i decided to hone it.
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My hones are Japanese naturals, a Nakayama and a Botan Nagura. I carefully made the slurry and honed it with out tape for about an hour. At the last 15 min., I got rid of the slurry and honed it with just the Nakayama and water. (Picture below is of my Nakayama and my 50mm Iwasaki)

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The razor responded to my honing but not much. Now it splits the hair at least. I went ahead and shaved with it, and it was just fine, no burning or cuts. But it still fails the hair test.

Do you think that my Nakayama is appropriate for RWL 34?
How do you guys hone your ATS 34/ RWL 34?

Thank you in advance

I dont know how Livi razors are sharpened by the man himself. But if it were honed WITH tape, and you tried honing it without tape on such a fine stone, you may need another hour or two!

Livi doesn't hone with tape, as far as i know anyway. No worries re HHT test, shave is everything.

Nice work!
I had no problems sharpening ATS-34 on Jnats, incl Nakayamas,
and the hair test I wouldn't worry much about, if it shaves well, that's the best test!
I'm still a little confused over going from Botan nagura slurry straight to pure water on your Nakayama, either the jump is to big or your Nakayama is not a finisher.
How does it feel/look when you hone with pure water, do you get black swarf?

Thanx for the replies guys,

Lemur: When i honed with pure water i didn't get any black swarf.. i didn't get that even with the Botan slurry..

As far as the hair test goes, doesn't that differ due to humidity/type of hair ?

You need more than just botan to get the max out of the edge. You need to get a Mejiro nagura and a piece of tomonagura as well.
1 hour honing just to referesh is a very long time.

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Do you think that my Nakayama is appropriate for RWL 34?

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Impossible to answer, no two stones are quite identical, so even if your stone does not work on the razor , another Nakayama could very well work. In my experience with Jnats unless you have a junk stone you should be able to hone most anything on it.

HHT is not what tells you if the razor is shave ready, it is the shave test.

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Originally Posted by Leonidas77

Thanx for the replies guys,

Lemur: When i honed with pure water i didn't get any black swarf.. i didn't get that even with the Botan slurry..

As far as the hair test goes, doesn't that differ due to humidity/type of hair ?

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Then it looks like it might be a finisher, could be a really nice one too!
With Botan you should get lots of black swarf.
For the rest I agree with mainaman, you need to close that gap in your grit jump.
Check this tread; http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-kamisori.html

...and the hair test, it's something you never can trust, we need some standardized test but "hair" is not the way to go.

Also the pressure when honing a kamisori is a lot higher than for a normal razor.
In "Honing Razors and Nihonkamisoris" by Iwasaki, trans. JimR the pressure is;
Botan 16,5 Kg
Tenjou 1,65 Kg
Tomo 165 g

When i hone my Iwasaki the results are perfect with these two stones.

Please note that my Livi is an occidental/western hollow grind, so it's supposed to be honed differently than other asymmetrical razors, for example the Iwasaki.

Ahh, yes!
The Livi I don't know anything about, I was just talking about kamisoris in general.
Good you get the Iwasaki perfect but I still don't think a few more naguras would hurt. ;)

If you haven't got Iwasakis paper you can get it here: Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori: Updated. | Eastern Smooth: The Blog

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Originally Posted by Leonidas77

When i hone my Iwasaki the results are perfect with these two stones.

Please note that my Livi is an occidental/western hollow grind, so it's supposed to be honed differently than other asymmetrical razors, for example the Iwasaki.

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it looked symmetrical to me too, you nee to hone it just like any other straight,
On the no swarf issue, have you honed it on synthetics? I know those steels are very abrasion resistant so it is possible you may need to prep the edge on other stones and then do the final work on the Nkayama.

Yeah.. I should complete a set :hmmm: with a couple more naguras and another Jnat :)

And if you ever get hold of a Koma you'll send me a piece right? ;)
Pleeease!

I've only honed my razors with the Nakayama and the Nagura till now..

...and "mainaman" is correct, i should use a rougher stone for the beginning.

Just like Lemur said, a few more naguras wouldn't hurt! I'll add another Japanese natural on that order :hmmm:

Sure thing Lemur, seems like my friend Takeshi has some (Search)

Leonidas77 you know your stuck now right?
Jnats are a trap.... it's like a trail of candy... -Oh, there's another nice rock!

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Originally Posted by Leonidas77

I've only honed my razors with the Nakayama and the Nagura till now..

...and "mainaman" is correct, i should use a rougher stone for the beginning.

Just like Lemur said, a few more naguras wouldn't hurt! I'll add another Japanese natural on that order :hmmm:

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you need a synthetic before the jnats, it makes life a lot easier, other wise you have to go trough a bunch of Jnats before you find the correct ones to do the job fro you.

Well, after doing some research I ordered from Maggard Razors the 3k, 8k and the 12k Naniwa Superstones for my Livi. I live in Nicosia Cyprus, so it should be a couple weeks before they arrive :/
Once I lap them and hone the kamisori I will let you know how it went.