New Dovo Bismarck - honing issues

I am new here and this is my first post!

So my dovo razor came and it was sharp but not shave ready. I decided to order the norton water stones. I figured I would try the 8000 grit stone first just to polish up the edge. I went slowly and used even light pressure pushing the blade toward the end of the stone, then flipping and going the other way. I followed a few youtube videos. After 20 or so strokes on each side, I decided to test the sharpness by cutting some hair on my arm. It went from at least cutting to not cutting at all! I honestly am stumped as to why this is? Im thinking about just having the thing sent out and fixed before I mess it up even more. But I figured I would try the 4000 grit side then go back to the 8000. It got a little better but it is still very dull compared to before I honed the razor.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Welcome to srp and the deep end.

Honing can be hard at first. Did you lap the 4k/8k?

As you are having this much trouble I would send it out. Then later when it starts to pull and pasted strops won't bring the edge back get a cheap shave ready razor. Use the cheap one to shave with and try honing the dovo again. Of course you could send the dovo out and order a cheap not shave ready razor to learn to hone. In the mean time read more and watch more good videos.

Jonathan

You also need a finer grit like 12k and/or chromium oxide 0.5 to get it shave ready.
It's a good idea to practice on a cheap razor first. I got a bunch of them on ebay. Try them out and sell them back when you learn how to do it properly.

My advice would be to stop trying to hone your new Dovo. Send it out for honing. When you get it back try it without even
touching a strop and you will have a good idea of what a well honed blade should feel like and accomplish.
In the meantime while you wait for your razor to come back to you study everything you can find on honing. Just the information that our forum owns will give all you need to know to begin honing on your own. Enjoy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midoio

You also need a finer grit like 12k and/or chromium oxide 0.5 to get it shave ready.

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This isn't true. You can get a very good shave off an 8K. Sure, a 12k or higher finishing stone will make it even smoother but if all you ever used was an 8k you could be happy forever if your technique is solid.

I suspect the problem is both one of technique and starting in the wrong place. It's natural not to want to "mess up" your new razor (and I'll second the recommendation to send this one out to be professionally honed and getting an inexpensive but good quality second razor to practice on) and to want to do the least possible to it but you'd probably be better served using a 1k to set a bevel, 4k to get it sharp then 8k to finish. You should be able to get a top quality shave off of just those three stones.

How many laps did you do on the 4k? I recommend sending it out so you have a baseline of what it should feel like. It sounds like you made some progress though with the 4k...maybe give it a little more time there and see where it gets you.

If you get another razor from SRD, get the "world of the straight razor" DVD with it. Lynn demonstrates pyramid honing and talks about a lot of hone options. gssixgun (Glen) has several youtube videos on honing as well. I also have the Norton 250/1K and 4K/8K. My finishing stone is a Shapton 16K (and I can hear angels sing when I take it out of its box).

My sense is that you're going too heavy, you somehow screwed up the bevel, and now you probably need to reset the bevel and pyramid-hone back up to a finishing stone (12K+-ish).

BTW, I think a Bismark is probably my next razor. If they made one in stainless, I'd probably already have one.

Welcome....

with a norton 4k/8k combo... and a new razor

step one lap the top layer from the hone with
flat wet dry coarse paper. The surface of new
Norton hones seem to have a thin 'crust' that
does not work as well as the rest of the hone.
This will also get the top and bottom equally flat.
Equally flat is good.

A new razor often needs to have a fresh bevel
set. Most razor makers have a finishing step that
sharpens the razor well enough but lifts the spine
so the polish is not touched. This gives the
razor a profile that is difficult to maintain.

Your idea of honing on the 8k first is a good one.
Had the bevel been set correctly you would be
fine more often than not.

You can try it again after marking the edge
with a marker. The marker will let you see
if the bevel extends to the edge. The magic marker
test is very helpful in setting a bevel.

Can you set a bevel on the 4k side?.. while
not recommended yes. It can take a while.
A magic marker test can tell you if bevel setting
is progressing. Use an easy to see color and
if you see a thin colored line shrink you are making
progress. If you see the line and it does not shrink
the 4k is going to take a long time. A very long time,
so send it out.

Tape, many folk add a layer or two of tape to the spine.
This lifts the spine and preserves the polish. If one
or two layers of tape lifts the spine enough to match
the factory bevel you are in good shape. Tape and
hone away. The magic marker test has value here
and the combination of marker and tape can be magic.

Some 40+ years ago I started with a single water stone.
It took a lot of visits to the hone but eventually the bevel
lined up and the razor gave me good shaves, still does.

Visit youtube and look for the videos from gssixgun on
honing with a norton 4k/8 hone. Compare and contrast
with the videos by lynn and it will begin to come together.

Look for the pyramid method on the WiKi here. It works
wonders and works well.

Honing is not rocket science, and you'll only learn by doing it. Glen has a video where he sets the bevel on a norton 4k. It's not hard and does not take long. Give it a go. You are not going to destroy the razor. You'll know the bevel is set when the razor mows down the hairs on your arm. You can then go through a Pyramid progression and shave off the 8k. Stropping will help smooth out the edge. Good luck. It's a good feeling when you get your own razor shave ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Welcome....

with a norton 4k/8k combo... and a new razor

step one lap the top layer from the hone with
flat wet dry coarse paper. The surface of new
Norton hones seem to have a thin 'crust' that
does not work as well as the rest of the hone.
This will also get the top and bottom equally flat.
Equally flat is good.

A new razor often needs to have a fresh bevel
set. Most razor makers have a finishing step that
sharpens the razor well enough but lifts the spine
so the polish is not touched. This gives the
razor a profile that is difficult to maintain.

Your idea of honing on the 8k first is a good one.
Had the bevel been set correctly you would be
fine more often than not.

You can try it again after marking the edge
with a marker. The marker will let you see
if the bevel extends to the edge. The magic marker
test is very helpful in setting a bevel.

Can you set a bevel on the 4k side?.. while
not recommended yes. It can take a while.
A magic marker test can tell you if bevel setting
is progressing. Use an easy to see color and
if you see a thin colored line shrink you are making
progress. If you see the line and it does not shrink
the 4k is going to take a long time. A very long time,
so send it out.

Tape, many folk add a layer or two of tape to the spine.
This lifts the spine and preserves the polish. If one
or two layers of tape lifts the spine enough to match
the factory bevel you are in good shape. Tape and
hone away. The magic marker test has value here
and the combination of marker and tape can be magic.

Some 40+ years ago I started with a single water stone.
It took a lot of visits to the hone but eventually the bevel
lined up and the razor gave me good shaves, still does.

Visit youtube and look for the videos from gssixgun on
honing with a norton 4k/8 hone. Compare and contrast
with the videos by lynn and it will begin to come together.

Look for the pyramid method on the WiKi here. It works
wonders and works well.

---

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____________________________________

The above is dead solid great advice. My sentiments exactly. Stick with it 'til it works.

I have a norton 220 and a 1000 hone as well. I noticed about the stone. I flattened it with the flattening stone that came in the "kit". I noticed it started working a bit better after that. I think I may try to set a bevel with the 1000 stone and move to the 4000 then the 8000 stone. It can't hurt to try. I will also look up the pyramid method. I have heard about it and I believe I have watched a few videos on it. But it doesn't hurt to re-watch them and freshen up on my method. I will report back with some results!!

Thanks for all the reply's. Worst case, I will send it out and have it done by a pro. Then I will try the ebay route and try on a cheep razor!

Thanks again!

I was not able to get the razor much sharper after all the advice. I think I am going to send it out. Any suggestion on people who do good work? I wish there was a place around Utica / Syracuse NY where someone could show me what I am doing wrong!

Thanks

Try Member Services.

Jonathan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gibbsj87

I was not able to get the razor much sharper after all the advice. I think I am going to send it out. Any suggestion on people who do good work? I wish there was a place around Utica / Syracuse NY where someone could show me what I am doing wrong!

Thanks

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I also have "Bismarck(Best German Hollow Ground)" -- pearl scales with golden spine and a square 'Bismarck' gold logo on the face of the blade.

I use this forum for advice, this is my first post. I got the Bismarck as my first straight. Just as your Razor, mine came "not shave ready" although it claimed it was. I bought a Norton 4k/8k just as you did.

I noticed a few things while using proper honing technique:
1.) Metal was being taken off the spine -- along with the gold.
2.) The honing was scratching above where the factory bevel... was beveled.

To fix the bevel with something I could work with... I used 2 pieces of Electric tape over the spine and proceeded to spend the next 2.5 hours resetting the bevel on the 4k side with great success. the metal was obviously being honed where it was helping my edge. I proceeded with 1hr on the 8k side and then 10min on my strop.

Just after the test shave my results:
1.top 1/4th and bottom 1/4th tugged and were unpleasant but still did not prevent me from a 3 pass shave. wtg / xtg / atg.
2.the better part of the middle which was sharp, didn't cut 100% evenly.(more like 85%)
Conclusion:
I need to probably sand the top of the stones into an even flat surface and/or improve my honing technique to even laps/even along the entirety of the blade.

The shave was about 60% as "perfect" as my dovo shavette shaves which are the best ever. (But the 60% is exactly how a plastic bic disposable would stack up to the shavette.

TL;DR:
For Bismarck: 2 strips of electrical tape = almost factory bevel / +hone for hours = yield top results.