difference between hard and soft stones

I am relatively new to sr shaving and not ready to hone yet, however i do have questions about the diff types of hones used to sharpen a sr. I am more than sure i will give this a try as I progress. I have always had much better luck sharpening knives etc on hard stones vs man made or soft slurry stones. I am wondering how that will affect my learning curve on straights when i give it a try and also as i read it seems like most stones used for straights are fairly soft anyway. I have mostly used arkasas stones in the past which are pretty hard. Thanks for any input and like I said I am merely doing a little research here so all feedback is welcome.

Welcome. Not sure about your hardness question. I've always kept the idea of hardness in stones as a mute point.

Your learning curve will be hampered only by your assumption that knife honing and straight honing have some useful common sharpening competencies. They don't. They are similar to shooting a rifle and shooting a handgun; where they are both shooting, but there is a whole slew of new things to learn about shooting at distance such as scopes, ballistics, etc., that need to be added, and a whole lot about handguns that need to be forgotten.

So, first lesson is focus on the differences. You could take the analogy one step further as knife honing is simple, like short range shooting, and then rifle (distance) shooting is more difficult and requires you to learn more to get better.

Most really dull razors sweep by knife sharpness on the way to getting honed.

Along with thousands of additional data points posted in thousand of honing threads keep this one in mind. Most razors have been honed incorrectly and thus there is only the illusion that the spine is acting as the correct angle. The razor has been honed in the past by some moron that thinks he can hone with his fingers on the blade. So it's all jacked up by the time you touch it. So the spine is no longer adequate.

^^^
Pretty much this. Alans analogy with firearms has some truth... there's a (small) bit of carry over form knives to razors, but not much. It might be a decent idea to forget what you "know", and start from scratch.

The issue of "hardness" regarding stones used for razors seems to be less of an issue than overall grit, (unless you really want to delve into naturals. And for now, you don't. Seriously.), progression, and the intial condition of the razor.

Plenty of info available here, both subjective and objective.


And welcome to the party, Devil Dog. K/2/6... back in the day.

I have stones that have been classified as hard and soft. I use them all, sometimes in series, and have never noticed any effect other than how the razor "feels" on the stone. There are plenty of things to worry about in honing, but this isn't one of them.

I like a stone that cuts fast, feels smooth, doesn't soak up water, doesn't make a lot of mud, and doesn't dish.

To me that's a hard stone.

Michael

well spoken. thanks for the info. i like the shooting analogy! oorah 94 terp. 2d recon here.

Really hard Jnats may require "expert" skills to be used, my first asagi I bought was totally useless for me the first years I had it.
Today it's easier to get good help but I wouldn't suggest you get one until you can hone on softer stones in your sleep.

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Originally Posted by USMC

I am relatively new to sr shaving and not ready to hone yet, however i do have questions about the diff types of hones used to sharpen a sr. I am more than sure i will give this a try as I progress. I have always had much better luck sharpening knives etc on hard stones vs man made or soft slurry stones. I am wondering how that will affect my learning curve on straights when i give it a try and also as i read it seems like most stones used for straights are fairly soft anyway. I have mostly used arkasas stones in the past which are pretty hard. Thanks for any input and like I said I am merely doing a little research here so all feedback is welcome.

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It is the opposite, for knives you want softer stones for razor harder stones. Harder meaning not easy to release slurry on their own while honing on the stone.

Maybe this is an over simplification .... (is that a word?) but in my mind a 'soft' stone cuts faster than a hard one and may be more suitable for sharpening than finishing. The harder stone more appropriate for polishing/finishing.

The old barber Frank Natale told me he favored softer coticules because they were faster. So I think each, harder/softer, has their place. OTOH, defining soft compared to what ? There is too soft and there is just right. I don't know how to tell what that is until I have a razor on the stone. Just IMHO. :shrug:

I watched Lynn and 6guns honing videos after work last nite. Reallt made some sense to me. Il have a better Idea of what I want when I purchase stones! Thank you everyone for your input.

Today I ordered my first stone. I have purchased a shapton glass stone 16000 grit, holder, and dglp from srd. I am very excited to learn how to touch up my dovo. the other grits will soon be mine also!

That's a good stone.

You can certainly finish a razor on a hard black or translucent Arkansas, and that's about as hard as it gets. They're slow but many folks love an Ark edge. Thuringians are also fairly hard.

In the Japanese natural world, hardness generally goes with fineness, so you want a pretty hard stone. Almost none of the finishers are soft enough to self-slurry with razor pressure.

However, a small portion especially some vintage stones defy the hard/fine general relationship and are relatively soft and very fine. This is about 2% of them according to Takeshi-San at AFrames Tokyo. They are the ones I look for, but unfortunately they bring a high price if the seller understands what they have.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by mainaman

It is the opposite, for knives you want softer stones for razor harder stones. Harder meaning not easy to release slurry on their own while honing on the stone.

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Ditto. A harder stone has a much wider working range, and will allow you to improve results as skill improves. Very soft stones are somewhat one dimensional and do not allow a great final finish. there is a balance of stones that are hard but not glass hard that are nice to use if they can still be used without releasing grit, and some super hard stones that don't release grit at all that newbies will find difficult to crack (but even those make nice base stones for nagura work).

I can't think of any natural stone that releases grit under light pressure of a razor that really does a good job finishing.

Razors cut growth, firearms end it.