Can't get this razor sharp!

Hello sirs!

Been trying to hone my first razor for Larry at whippeddog.com, and have had a little trouble so far. The razor came to me pretty dull. I have Naniwa 1k, 5k, 8k, and 12k Super Stones. I am trying Lynn’s circle method but can’t seem to get the razor to cut any hairs after the 5k. I have repeated the 1k and 5k parts several times and it still will not cut. When I run the edge across my thumbnail, it feels rough. The bevel is uneven and it appears that the edge is slightly curved in some places. I also have a DMT 325 if that is of any use here.
Do you guys have any suggestions?

Thanks!

kill the edge and begin at the 1k and make sure the bevel is set properly...don't even bother advancing until the bevel is set proper or you wont get the results your looking for :) hope it helps a bit

Can you post a pic? Those sight unseen razors often have major honewear and other issues that can affect honeability....

Is this your first time at honing? If it is, it is probably a pressure issue ( use less) if is not, I would try one layer of tape or two if the first doesn't do it. That would be my inexperience assessment without looking or feeling the blade! Double O

Ok here are some pictures of what's going on right now. I hope they are of some use (cell phone pics).

Attachment 119999Attachment 120000

This is my first time honing, so I'd appreciate any ideas!

:chapeau

Try a minimum of two layers of electrical tape on the spine and see if it helps. The spine is showing some significant honewear.

When you're first setting the bevel, hold the blade as in your photos, with a bare light bulb over your head. Slowly rotate the blade away from you, and watch the reflection off the edge. You should see ONE flash, as the bevel reflects the light, then no others as you turn the blade further away from you. If you see any very slight line of reflection, right at the edge, at any time after you see the bevel flash, you aren't done setting the bevel yet.

It will be tiny, and if you're not sure you saw anything, you probably did. What you're likely to see is only the very tiniest bright line, irregularly along the edge, briefly, so watch carefully. You have to continue to hone the bevel until that line is gone.

It looks like you're honing in the center more on one side than the other--I suspect the blade has a bit of a wave in it, OR you're not paying attention. Ideally, the bevel should be the same size on both sides.

I'd like to kind of comment about using the reflection test for bevel setting. I think that not only does there need to be 'one flash' but the bevel has to be fully cut into the steel and have a definitive change from bevel to the rest of the razor via a noticeable line. I hope i'm explaining that properly. It might not be perfectly straight based on honeware/warpage of the blade but you'll still be able to see it clearly.

When first learning how to set a bevel a jewelers loupe is a huge help as well.

A few things.
If this is your first time honing you can expect set back, for a while.
What was the first stone you used in your progression?

You say the razor was dull when you got it, did it no shave at all?
A lot of pulling?

Thanks for the feedback.

The stone I started with was the Naniwa 1k. I also have the DMT 325, but would it ever be a good idea to use a razor on that?

The razor will actually not shave at all. Not really pulling, but simply gliding over the hairs with no resistance.

Thanks!

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but my observation is that sharpening that particular razor may be too ambitious a project for your first experience. And, no, I'm not suggesting that you send it out for pro honing. I think it would be better to set it aside and start over with another razor that doesn't have so many issues. That way you can apply all this great advice to a blade that will be a little easier to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Man

Thanks for the feedback.

The stone I started with was the Naniwa 1k. I also have the DMT 325, but would it ever be a good idea to use a razor on that?

The razor will actually not shave at all. Not really pulling, but simply gliding over the hairs with no resistance.

Thanks!

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Use a marker to color the bevels then swipe on the stone to see if there are areas where there is no contact with the stone.
This will give you some indication if there are bevel issues that you need to work on.

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Originally Posted by Man

Been trying to hone my first razor for Larry at whippeddog.com, and have had a little trouble so far. The razor came to me pretty dull. The bevel is uneven and it appears that the edge is slightly curved in some places. Do you guys have any suggestions?

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Tons of great hints, on honing, but I have one question????

Why didn't you just STOP at the very first shave, contact the vendor and say "Can you please double check this razor I bought from you and let me know what you think"


Now you have a Frowned, Hone Worn, 4/8, razor that is not near shave ready.. Trust me I am all about being self sufficient but you really bit into a problem razor there..

ps: The heel need to be re-contoured too..

Larry offers honing feedback - he essentially sends you an old razor to restore and gives you notes for improvement once he gets it back. Repeating this process a few times is supposed to be an excellent way to develop honing skills. This isn't my shaver, just something to get some hands-on practice with.

I have used my 12k to touch up the edge on my shaver, but this is the first time I'm attempting to restore a razor from the ground up.

I did the marker test and it looks like the entire edge is making contact.

Thank you for the answer, you have truly opened my eyes...

If this was mine, first thing I would do would be to check for a frown (hold razor edge down against a known flat stone and use a bright light), if there's no frown, then I would use two plus layers of tape and start on a 1k, do 20-30 light to medium pressure laps and check to see how it cuts arm hair, repeat until it cuts full length very easily then move to a higher grit and repeat with less pressure. Do this up through the finisher. If you have an eye loupe or some form of magnification check often, by 8k it should be very shiny and mirrored. The 1k will do most of the work and the higher grits will finesse the edge.

As others have said, this is probably not the ideal learning razor do to hone wear

Sorry to say, a regrind would be more appropriate than a restore.

RE: flash test - anybody got a video of it? I see a flash on razors of mine that shave well, but factoring in a smile the flash dances more than blinks. Would appreciate any visualizations anyone can provide.

I actually get razors like that to hone. First, get an eye loupe, it's invaluable. Second, get a lot of tape, 3M electrical. Third, spend a lot of time on the 1k. I like the Chosera, but the Naniwa will work. Check the blade for eveness. Lay it on the hone, make sure it's flat, and Yes, check for a frown. Apply two layers of tape, drag the cutting edge across the side of your stone, dull it, and reset the bevel. Don't move on to the next hone in progression until it's cutting arm hair. I want mine damm near shave ready off the 1k. That's the trick.

Those older neglected blades take forever to hone, Your fighting significant hone wear and lot's of age. You can see you have more of a bevel in the middle because of the hone wear. The tape will help, and you may have to "help" the blade in certain trouble areas" by adding a little pressure in the areas that are lacking. This is hard to explain, Watch Glen's video on youtube.

Zib, good advice! I find that the rolling x stroke really does the trick for any blades that have issues. Just be sure when doing strokes like this that you're not actually LIFTING the blade during the stroke. When you're doing this you're 'rolling' the pressure from the toe at the start of your stroke, to the heel at the end of your stroke.

Glen also makes mention to a 'swoop' at the end of the stroke and I find this extremely helpful to hit the toe of the blade/barbers' notch.

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Originally Posted by Bill S

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but my observation is that sharpening that particular razor may be too ambitious a project for your first experience. And, no, I'm not suggesting that you send it out for pro honing. I think it would be better to set it aside and start over with another razor that doesn't have so many issues. That way you can apply all this great advice to a blade that will be a little easier to deal with.

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This is exactly why many of us recommend learning to hone by touching up a razor first. This way you are fine tuning your shaving technique & learning to refine an edge that may have started to loose it's appeal. While you are learning to touch up a razor, you are not only building your confidence...you are learning proper pressure & getting used to putting the blade to the hone. Setting the bevel on a razor, especially one like you have that is butterknife sharp, is a very daunting & challenging task for someone starting out. Resetting a bevel is one thing, restoring a bevel is a whole other story that you should have a little experience in everyday honing before you take it on.

Think of it as washing, polishing & waxing your car (resetting a bevel & maintaining your edge) versus a total paintjob (restoring a blade). Both can be easily enough done if you have the knowledge & experience, but one is much easier to learn & less labor intensive than the other.

Just FYI, there are MANY honing mentors here on SRP. All you have to do is just ask, pick ONE & stick with them. If it isn't working out, tell them and find another. This (learning to hone) isn't something you will pick up overnight nor is it rocket science...just a learned skill. You can learn thru the mail system, but finding someone who you can work with Face-to-Face is best.

I'm with Bill, setting this razor aside for the time being (if it is yours) and start with another. ALWAYS use tape until you are proficient at honing a razor & have fun with it.

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Originally Posted by brooksie967

Glen also makes mention to a 'swoop' at the end of the stroke and I find this extremely helpful to hit the toe of the blade/barbers' notch.

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Yup, The Swoop rules!