Keep it flat - it's not so simple

In my previous post First Thing That Comes to Mind (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...omes-mind.html) I have talked about my process of gaining knowledge to attempt to hone the razor for the first time and asked for some quick advice. Not surprisingly the answers gravitated towards 'keep it flat', 'light pressure' and 'mark the blade so you can tell that you're making the contact along the entire length of the blade'. All this made perfect sense...

My first attempt to hone went ok. Ok enough to shave with it but, I wasn't happy with the sharpness I got. So I went back at it, and (here's a shocker for a newb honer) actually dulled the blade. Somehow I managed not to jack up the bevel. Stubborn ass in me left it for a day and tried again. This time, I made progress, but I sharpened only the heel while the toe remained dull.

At this point I realised that I'm likely not keeping the blade flat (although it appeared to be flat while I'm honing). At this point I did exactly what most instructional videos and advice tell you NOT to do - I used the other hand on the toe to keep it flat and add extra pressure to the toe. Long story short, I got the razor sharp in the entire length of the blade and it actually shaves great. What worries me is that I won't be able to repeat my performance.

So here is the question: how do you know that the razor is ACTUALLY flat? Stupid question, I know, as most answers will most likely be something like "eventully you'll get a feel for it". So the follow up is: why not use the other hand to keep it flat with the understanding that that touch needs to be supper, ultra light?

I'm asking open ended questions, so once again, I'm more interested in your thoughts than that one answer to solve it all.
Cheers!

I'm wondering what you mean by "jack up the bevel"?

As for laying flat, the blade will tend to lie flat unless you manipulate it otherwise. Generally, the cause of that manipulation is pressure. Ultimately, you'll learn to allow it to lie flat with one hand.

There is nothing wrong about honing with both hands, as long as your not applying pressure. I did that for along time until i got the feel of doing it one handed. You can apply some pressure when setting the bevel. Honing is a skill and takes time to learn like straight shaving. And when in doubt sent it out. Isnt that right Maxi, You get all my miserable honing jobs.

Watch the water on the edge as you push it across if you can't just watch the edge. It's okay to use what ever you need to get the job done and the advice you found so far is a starting point for you to go from. Just try to remember what works and watch as you go what you are doing so you can repeat it. Make notes if that helps. I can't remember what all was posted before but is your hone lapped ? just keep at it you'll get it. If not you will have to find someone that can help you in person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ace

I'm wondering what you mean by "jack up the bevel"?

As for laying flat, the blade will tend to lie flat unless you manipulate it otherwise. Generally, the cause of that manipulation is pressure. Ultimately, you'll learn to allow it to lie flat with one hand.

---

I mean, I didn't mess it up. The blade was dull but the TNT still passed great.

I'm glad that you noted that "the blade will tend to lie flat unless you manipulate it otherwise" because this is the core of one of the questions. Isn't the weght of the handle already putting the pressure on the heel so I, you, we all (honer) actually need to offset it by lifting lightly to keep it trully flat and uniformally pressured?

My experience has been that if you keep your honing elbow up at the level of the razor and stone and not below it that the razor will tend to lie flat on the stone. Most people start with their elbow down at their side, and the weight of their own arm works against them. When I hone with the elbow "up" this way, I find that the second, third and little fingers of my (in my case, right) hand cradle the scales from underneath them and keep the blade flat on the stone. It seemed uncomfortable at the very first but soon became habitual and comfortable. Once you set your honing arm up this way, flatness becomes a non-issue. I highly recommend it as do others here.

Flat on the stone is important to a degree. But there are things that change it's importance. If you keep a razor with a smiling edge profile flat on the hone, you will only manage to hone the belly of your blade. If you keep a razor with a rounded toe flat on the hone, you won't sharpen the toe. Granted, you'll hone enough of it to shave with. But not the whole thing. The way I know my razor is effectively being sharpened, isn't determined by whether or not the blade is flat on the hone, but by the water displacement in front of the edge, the amount of swarf visibly manifesting, and where that swarf is. If I've got swarf at the heel and toe, but nothing in the middle, then the razor belly(there's a frown in the blade) is not being sharpened. If I have swarf at the heel but nowhere else, nothing else is getting sharper. In order to determine that the entire razor edge is begin sharpened, the magic marker test works well. But also the evidence on the stone is my primary clue.

There's nothing wrong with using both hands, so long as it's working for you. Do it however you like. I use what's referred to as "japanese" honing strokes for most of my bevel setting. It's apparently an old school thing, but works for me. It takes both hands. For the rest of the razor sharpening, I use one handed x strokes and circles. Which also works for me. So far, nobody has told me I'm hurting anything by doing it that way. It also helps stave off boredom, which is my secondary motive while honing. :)

I also hone 2-handed when trying to even out a smiling blade with swooping strokes, and also do circles and sometimes Japanese strokes when trying to start a stubborn bevel. Sometimes I'll even lay a finger on the part of the blade when trying to bring, say, the toe into line, or if the blade is not 100 percent flat on the hone. Learning the fundamentals is vital, but so is paying close attention to each blade and what it needs. There are many paths to shave ready. Most of us are still finding new ones-that's most of the fun!

Not that many flat razors out there. If you have a warped razor you can't keep it flat on the hone you have to keep the edge & spine in contact with the hone tho. A rocking stroke may be more appropriate there.