Honemeisters Secrets

Ok, here goes. A general question for the honemeisters. Regardless of stones and tests like hht and thumb, is there a sound or feeling the blade makes on the hone when you are making your final passes, when you can feel that the razor is ready, when it is done. Now, the challenge. Can you describe that feeling? Is it stone specific or have you felt this across many stones? The thing I have learned in life is a true master of a craft, regardless of that craft, has a commonality in that they know when the masterwork is done. This is the place we aspire to reach. To know when something is perfectly finished. So what senses are peaked for you and what should us seeking to obtain the mastery of the art of honing feel, hear, see, smell, taste, that informs us as you are informed?

It is a feeling that you have to develop with practice, I personally do not know how to describe it the blade starts to feel in a certain way and then I know I can move on. I still use a scope to double check if indeed the blade is ready to move, for example microchips can't be detected by feeling.

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Originally Posted by grandadsrazor

The thing I have learned in life is a true master of a craft, regardless of that craft, has a commonality in that they know when the masterwork is done. This is the place we aspire to reach. To know when something is perfectly finished. So what senses are peaked for you and what should us seeking to obtain the mastery of the art of honing feel, hear, see, smell, taste, that informs us as you are informed?

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How does it shave!

Tim

One word, stiction.

I'm very new to Honing but I knew that my bevel was set when I felt the suction between the blade and the stone. I believe but could be wrong that that is what stiction is. Like I said I'm very new to honing- as in 1 successful hone!. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd like to know what it is as well!

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Originally Posted by anthogia

I'm very new to Honing but I knew that my bevel was set when I felt the suction between the blade and the stone. I believe but could be wrong that that is what stiction is. Like I said I'm very new to honing- as in 1 successful hone!. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I'd like to know what it is as well!

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Basically, when you get that feeling that the blade is sticking to the hone, it's time to move on to the next hone. When you are on your highest grit hone and get the stiction, try a test shave. Usually a good indicator. YMMV, thlugh.

The feedback and change in feedback I get varies from hone to hone. It can also vary depending on the grind of the blade and the size of the bevels. In my opinion, you have asked about the most difficult way to tell if a blade is ready, because it varies so much and because the differences in feedback from a blade that is close as compared to one that is done are, at least to me, minuscule.

I personally don't use the feedback to tell me when a blade is done on a given hone. I have particular patterns/sets/routines that work for a very large percentage of razors on each hone. Off the 1k, I use a thumbpad test to check that the bevel is set. After that, I'm at the point where my next test is the shave test. Depending on how that goes, I'll either know the blade is ready or where I need to go back to.

When I get the blade back in the mail from a TRUE HoneMeister,at that point I am done:)

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Originally Posted by Theseus

One word, stiction.

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And somehow that says a lot even to the inexperienced

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Originally Posted by Theseus

One word, stiction.

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Stiction is the static friction that needs to be overcome to enable relative motion of stationary objects in contact, The term is a combination of the term "static friction", perhaps also influenced by the verb "stick".

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Originally Posted by Theseus

One word, stiction.

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There is no sticktion with the lower grit stones.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

There is no sticktion with the lower grit stones.

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Maybe stiction is not the word for it but I definitely felt suction on my 1k when I was setting the bevel, and I shaved some arm hair off, checked under a loupe and it was set. The suction is what really gave it away for me though! Plus the magic marker test took all of it off of both sides so I was pretty sure that I was good to go!

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Originally Posted by mainaman

There is no sticktion with the lower grit stones.

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I get stiction with certain low grit stones(i.e. King's and Arkies). That is why I added YMMV in my explanation of stiction.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

I get stiction with certain low grit stones(i.e. King's and Arkies). That is why I added YMMV in my explanation of stiction.

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If I'm using the word correctly I use nanis- works for me!

just so that I don't look stupid when I say low grit you do mean 1k and lower yeah?

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Originally Posted by anthogia

just so that I don't look stupid when I say low grit you do mean 1k and lower yeah?

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even if I'm wrong I get suction with my higher grade stones as well 12k finishers.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

When I get the blade back in the mail from a TRUE HoneMeister,at that point I am done:)

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Now then, what on earth can Pixelfixed mean?.........:idea:....ah! Say no more.

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by mainaman

There is no sticktion with the lower grit stones.

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May be not on your hones. I find some on certain naturals of mine at ~1k and above.
~Richard

I don't have any perceptible indicator of being done. I test the blade as I go. But, I know that I know how to hone so I have no doubt about what I'm doing or why. I don't feel any particular need to know when to move from stone to stone. I don't mind doing a little more than needed.

One important epiphany occurs when you realize how few correct strokes it takes to hone. There isn't a lot of feel because you are already done by the time you would feel anything.

It really isn't a secret..

Make sure the bevel is well and truely set before moving on, did you know that 90% of the honing is done in the bevel set, honestly it really is all about the bevel...

I am not sure if it is clear or not, so I would say Bevel, Bevel, Bevel, once the bevel is set, honing is actually fun and pretty easy :)

Loud and Clear Glen:) Even with Tape:)))))

I"ve been pretending to know what I'm doin' when it comes to my honeing, about 2 1/2 years now, but my skill lacks, I don't get that feeling on my finishing stones. But I still don't get that feeling, mostly I move on when I look under magnification and it pass's the TPT. Guess I'll never be a honing meister, but that's OK, I still love to shave with a razor that I put to my rocks.

Have a great weekend, tinkersd

I agree - there's no secret besides practice, experience, and patience. Don't be afraid to "mess up" - you'd be surprised how little damage you can do with a hone if you are practising good honing technique.

As to a feel, there's always feedback and logically it varies with the stone and the state its surface is in, and clearly also on the razor and the kind of edge it possesses. To me "stiction" only means one side of the bevel is flat - like a microscope, it tells you nothing about how close (sharp) those sides are to each other. This is why ensuring your bevel is good is so important.

Nothing short-cuts the process - there is no magic bullet to replace hard graft, practice, developing your edge tests and honing technique, and working out what works best on what stone with what razor and under what kind of progression.

To answer the OPs question, I know my edge is ready after a series of tests (beginning with the wet thumb nail on lower grits and ending with arm hair wafting at higher grits) gets me to the point where I know I can test shave. If the test shave goes well, I know the edge is good. So I suppose technically there is a "feeling" - the feeling of how an edge I have honed shaves. :)

James.

In my limited experience, gssixgun hit the nail on the head. And it is a great feeling to shave with a razor you have honed yourself. Took me a long time to do it, i thought it would be easy, as i have sharpened many a chisel, but this is sharp on a whole new level.

Jimbo.Little damage My AZZ:) this was my first Honing attempt,3 yrs ago,am getting better tho:)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...econe/drem.jpg

Yes, but now you know honing involves rubbing the razor on the stone and not throwing the stone at the razor - a common rookie mistake! :p

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes, but now you know honing involves rubbing the razor on the stone and not throwing the stone at the razor - a common rookie mistake! :p

James.

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I learned that after the first attempt,Than I discovered Tape,glorious TAPE:)

I get some sticktion with the 1K when I try to lift it off a wet table.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

I learned that after the first attempt,Than I discovered Tape,glorious TAPE:)

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I never thought tape would be enough to hold the broken pieces together. ;)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

It really isn't a secret..

Make sure the bevel is well and truely set before moving on, did you know that 90% of the honing is done in the bevel set, honestly it really is all about the bevel...

I am not sure if it is clear or not, so I would say Bevel, Bevel, Bevel, once the bevel is set, honing is actually fun and pretty easy :)

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Dammit Glen ! You told the secret ...... now it ain't a secret anymore !! :rofl2:

Don't tell that guy who "can't get HHT with his hone" that he needs to try it with the razor instead ...... :D

That's awesome

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Don't tell that guy who "can't get HHT with his hone" that he needs to try it with the razor instead ...... :D

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I knew I was doing something wrong.....

This is really a good thread. Funny too. I agree with the bevel part. Once the bevel is done I would say the secret from there is learning how to hone without using any pressure. Simply being able to repeat a stroke without using any pressure is important.

This is one reason I prefer not to focus on "stickion". Now that I accept the value of honing without pressure, I also value the damage associated with feeling stickion.

One big difference in honing for me was that during the first 4-5 years of learning I knew the value of honing without pressure, but it wasn't until a few years later that I genuinely accepted it and developed confidence that it would work, which usually takes a few identical pressure-less strokes. Without a few identical strokes following each other it was easy for me to assume it wasn't all that critical (because it didn't immediately work).

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Jimbo.Little damage My AZZ:) this was my first Honing attempt,3 yrs ago,am getting better tho:)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...econe/drem.jpg

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That'll buff right out :)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I never thought tape would be enough to hold the broken pieces together. ;)

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Dont be so cheap, buy the good stuff, works like a charm!

May be that this is off topic, but I've noticed I get stiction on a Norton 4k at just about 40 strokes. Something else happens at right around 40 strokes too...the stone needs wetted. If I really put a big pool of water on there, then I don't get stiction til 60 strokes. If I put very little water on it, I can get stiction at 20 strokes. Hone through it without re-wetting, and the stiction disappears. So I wonder is it the last bit of water following the law of gravity, that causes stiction at 40 strokes. Or something else.

I'm not really asking a question. It's just something I noticed, and thought maybe it was worth mentioning. Maybe I've presented it well enough for someone to test what I'm saying, and tell me they think I'm full of it, or I'm on to something. Who knows.

Another thing we should be entertained by is how many different ways the word stiction is spelled in this thread. :p