When is a kamisori finished ...

Hi All!

I've got a small problem and could need some help from you guys that has experience with kamisories...

I bought a kamisori on Ebay, from a seller that has very good feedback. But I thought the hone wear was so heavy and that the razor had reached it's end (honing wise, like it should be honed - you can always tape the spine, of course) and sent it back for a refund. The razor was described as mint and the seller refunded me some money, but not all (he kept over 20 usd in fees, and I had to pay registered shipping myself), with the argument that this is normal when you hone a kamisori (and that it still is in mint condition and that it was NOS when it came to him). He claims that mint is a personal view, which is true and that it's a fact that the traditional way of honing a Japanese razor is without tape and that the spine is effected like this ...

It's the Omote side that's the "problem", I took some photos before sending it back and would appreciate your input, before leaving feedback, since I'm no expert on kamisoris (I've only got three in my rotaiton - an Iwasaki, a Tosuke and a Henkotsu). Thank you for your help!

The Ebay razor (on a hone, lying flat):
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...psa6f27688.jpg

My Iwasaki:
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...ps12f61334.jpg

The wear on the Ebay razor, on the Omote side:
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...ps06bdee39.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikael

The razor was described as mint

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End of story IMHO, when you use the word "Mint" even on e-bay, it has a defined meaning at least to me when describing razors and that razor from the pics you are showing is not Mint...

Cheers Glen, I agree with you, but in some defense of the seller, he did show pictures where you could see that it had hone wear - not as clear as in my pics, but clear enough. However, I thought the seller had good feedback and therefor it couldn't be that bad (considering the description he gave). I don't mind some hone wear either, but I do mind if the razor is "finished", as in too heavy hone wear for a normal honing session, which I think this razor is, but since my experience isn't extensive when it come s to kamisories, I thought I better ask some of you guys, what your opinion is (before leaving negative feedback with a seller that actually has some rather good feedback) ...

Glen, I understand why you say it's finished, but could this not be made to shave just fine? What about microtomes that have a flat side and only one side that has a hollow grind to it?
Absolutely the razor is not mint and if he's claiming it was NOS when he got it, does that mean he is the one responsible for the hone wear?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brooksie967

Glen, I understand why you say it's finished, but could this not be made to shave just fine? What about microtomes that have a flat side and only one side that has a hollow grind to it?
Absolutely the razor is not mint and if he's claiming it was NOS when he got it, does that mean he is the one responsible for the hone wear?

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I never said that, I simply said it is not "Mint" you assumed all the rest...


@Mikael, really this depends on your perception of the word "mint"


If the description was " Used Kamisori, normal hone wear, Great shaver" that is a whole different story

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I never said that, I said it is not Mint

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There's a misunderstanding for sure! You said 'end of story' and I was agreeing with the statement you made that it was NOT mint. That was a question about the microtome, looking for answers, not trying to make assumptions.

In answer to the question can it be made to shave

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...t-2-kamis.html

I just finished Honing and Test shaving both of those...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brooksie967

Glen, I understand why you say it's finished, but could this not be made to shave just fine? What about microtomes that have a flat side and only one side that has a hollow grind to it?
Absolutely the razor is not mint and if he's claiming it was NOS when he got it, does that mean he is the one responsible for the hone wear?

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Yes and he claims that I misunderstood the fact that the traditional way of honing a Japanese razor is without tape and that the spine is effected. Further he claims: as a result the angle of the edge become sharper, I hope this is a physical accepted fact. I do get these "facts", but I think the razor is not in mint condition and that the spine wear is way to heavy for such a description and that I really should have a full refund. But, since my experience isn't that extensive with kamisories, I would like some input from you guys before leaving feedback (I'm not going to use any of your answers in my feedback or refer to them though).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

In answer to the question can it be made to shave

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...t-2-kamis.html

I just finished Honing and Test shaving both of those...

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That was my main argument (to the seller) for sending it back, that I thought it would be hard to hone a razor with that kind of wear. I actually like the razor, but not for that kind of money that was involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikael

That was my main argument (to the seller) for sending it back, that I thought it would be hard to hone a razor with that kind of wear. I actually like the razor, but not for that kind of money that was involved.

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Just like any other razor, you take a W&B with a flat spine and the honing becomes an issue :( A worn out Solingen and start doing the honing gymnastics or start adding layers of tape...

But you tell me "Mint" and I expect a certain type of razor to hit my hands :) Just my opinion of course of what the word Mint means, if I order Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream it better damn well be Green :rofl2:

I have no experience with kamisori. I would not however say the word mint when used to describe an object is a objective term. If you look it up in a dictionary you are given a very clear definition of what the word means.

If the seller stated that it was NOS. If the seller stated it was in mint condition I would not leave a positive feedback for that said seller based on the pictures you have posted. That is a used blade look at the honewear. I do not think the question is if the blade can be honed, used and would do a good job. The question you are asking is was the sellers description false based on the pictures you have shown us. In my humble opinion the sellers description is false.

I wouldn't say "mint" is a personal view at all, mint is mint and nothing else.
Then I don't know about this kamisori and how the smith once set the bevel the first time.
Any more pictures?

to your question when the Kamisori is finished, well when it can't be reground anymore to hollow the omote.
Yours has ways to go if you want to regrind it.

And to be absolutely sure it's not a language problem...smell the razor. Could have been cleaned with mint toothpaste...

The razor is "serviceable" not "mint".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

... But you tell me "Mint" and I expect a certain type of razor to hit my hands :) Just my opinion of course of what the word Mint means, if I order Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream it better damn well be Green :rofl2:

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Cheers Glen, that's my thoughts too. Thank you All, for your input, much appreciated!! :D

PS
No more pics, that makes this case any clearer anyhow and I've returned the razor and I got a refund, but approx 20 usd less than what I payed, + minus (:)) registered shipping from my end, which was over 20 usd.

If the seller described that razor or my razors glen posted the thread too I would have returned it as well. Regardless of "opinion" of mint, no one would hold that and say "yup, definitely mint condition".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikael

I've returned the razor and I got a refund, but approx 20 usd less than what I payed, + minus (:)) registered shipping from my end, which was over 20 usd.

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Yep sounds like "Paypal protekshun " :p