5 Years and still struggling

Dear honing enthusiasts,

I am definitely in need of advice. I have been straight razor shaving for 5 years now and have been honing my razors that whole time. For most of that time, I used a Norton 4k and 8k. I keep my stones lapped using glass with 3m wet or dry 400 grit. For a while I finished on strops with various diamond and other pastes, then moved to whatever 12k they sell on classic shaving. Recently I tried the diamond lapping films from Lee Valley, with no luck at all. Today, I tried with my brand new Naniwa 1k and 5k, followed by the norton 8k and the unknown 12k. I have a TI razor and a Hart, and keep up the edges on my brother's TI and my brother in law's Dovo.

My problem is inconsistency. I always sharpen till I get a nice edge on the razors, but the problem is that sometimes I get the nice edge after the first progression through the grits, and sometimes I have to come back to it a few times before it is any good. I haven't given up because I know I can get a great edge, but I am frustrated by how hit or miss it is. I have tried taping the spine, not taping the spine, circles, x strokes, straight strokes and whatever else I see in the videos. Frankly, I feel like I am getting worse at this as I get more experience and equipment.

In watching the videos, it seems to me that the expert gentlemen demonstrating could get a nice edge using just about any combo of strokes and equipment, and not only that, they are chatting away while doing it and not utterly engrossed like me. I can appreciate that they have worked hard to make it look easy, and I am dying to know what I am doing wrong. To me, it looks like I am exactly following the various methods and progressions shown. Is there some common error that I am probably making? I only hone every few months; is there some motion I am likely getting wrong? I have become convinced that I must be spazzing out somehow, because I have great equipment, and am worried that my wife's eyebrows might raise right off her head if any more sharpening stuff shows up on the porch.

I would greatly appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
Justin

I am sure some of the top guys will be by to give more in depth help but for me I found two rules that work best for me.

1. Keep it simple. Ie choose the hones you are going to use and use them till you are getting consistent results. I know you have been doing this so far but really you need to figure out why you aren't getting the results you want every time with your original set up. Adding more stones actually is making it harder for you to figure out where you are going wrong.

2. More is not better on the hones. Many people feel the more strokes they do the better the edge will be this is not true with honing though. The more strokes you do you are likely to build an destroy many good edges in that time. I test my edges often and early when I hone.

One other thing to remember is that not even the best honers get the edge right every time the first time.

Also you asked for help but didn't tell us about your honing routine. Giving that will go along way to getting help?

I would recommend building on the stones and methods you have success with rather than trying to keep varying both.

Once you get consistency under your belt your confidence will increase and and you won't tend to keep at the things causing you the problems. In most cases pressure is key and particularly using minimal pressure from the 8K through finishing. Another thing is to try less strokes vs. more.

Remember that the more you obsess, the more frustrating it is. Learn to walk away from the razor and come back at it the next day.

Build on your successes.

Have fun.

When I teach people how to hone there are 2 common mistakes.

1. The honing stroke is to fast. That leads to lack of control and uneven contact with the hone.
2. 60/40 weight distribution. Frequently guys think the edge is fragile and consequently put more pressure on the spine then they do on the edge. This should be reversed. More pressure on the edge and less on the spine, kinda 60% edge/40% spine.

Slow down and watch the water flow from heel to toe. :)

Great advice from the best. It took me a while to understand that slower is better.

I personally think this is the most helpful vid I have done, because it isn't me honing, it is me helping to teach a new honer.. Sometimes we make things look to easy, I have the same issue when I watch Vids on Woodworking and Turning, makes me want to punch the guy in the Vid because I swear I do the same thing and my stuff looks nothing like theirs :)


gssixgun Straight Razor Honing with speedster from SRP - YouTube

See if that Vid might give you some ideas of where you are going wrong

FWIW, I have also been honing for 5 years. I don't hit a home run every time I come up to bat. Some razors are more work than others. Another thing that comes to mind is how many times you've come up to bat. I wanted to learn to hone and had RAD at the same time. So I have gone through a couple of hundred of the darn things. Saying that with more razors to hone a person gets more experience. Not suggesting that you buy a couple of hundred razors BTW. Randy told me years ago to use the 8k as my benchmark for shave testing before going on up to the 12k.

Before he told me that I went through the progression to the 12k whether the razor was ready or not. This led to a lot of frustration. Now I shave test at 8k and only if I am satisfied with the results do I go up the grit ladder. Even then, I may need to return to the finisher to further dial the edge in to my satisfaction. Anyway, I think all of us have a certain amount of inconsistency with one honing attempt or another. Just like Lynn said, know when to walk away and come back another day. :gl:

I think I destroyed a razor before I started getting in the ballpark.I realized that I was using too much pressure and I did not have good contact with the stone. My razor looked like it had been used for a lifetime not 1 year. I am still using paste/sprays to really get the blade honed in after the Norton 8k but I am sort of getting there. Anyway, maybe, through the destruction I learned something.

There are lot's of variables when it comes to honing, You, The stones, and the condition of the razor your honing. Using the same stones like you mentioned is a good idea. That will help you build consistency. Some things I've learned.

All razors are not created equal.
Your 1k edge should feel shave ready to the touch or TPT.
Use more pressure when setting a bevel, and almost no pressure when finishing, just the weight of the blade.

I know it can be frustrating after so many years. We all have those moments. That's when you need to put things away, like Lynn said, and come back the next day with a fresh perspective.

You’ve received good counsel from some of the best there are out there!

When I was learning to hone; Glen’s (GSSIXGUN) videos were of great help! with that said, the one where he sits down with speedster would have been GREAT!!!

My meager counsel would be to listen to all above and also to please watch the video that Glen recommended as it really is a great learning tool!

You said the magic words. The more hones and equipment you get the worse you are becoming.

The first day on the job my boss pointed out a seasoned veteran. He said that guy has been working here for 40 years and each day he struggles to do his job the same as he did on day one.

You need to get the basics down. Using more equipment will actually make things worse as will changing technique. You need to use a basic hone set and a basic routine and stick with it until you get it right every time (assuming of course a good razor). Once you are able to get it right then you can move on with hones and techniques. A lot of this is like learning math. One thing builds upon the other and if you never got the fundamentals right you just keep falling more behind as you get into more advanced math.

When I started i watched some videos on honeing ad learned a lot, but something someone said sounded silly at first but I think he had a motive ...He said,"If you have trouble jut put it down and give the razor a rest...especially when changing gits"
Well what you are really doing is giving the hone operator a rest...After A day sometimes it starts coming together.
Stingray

Thank you all for your advice. I got home from work this afternoon, read your posts, watched the video, made notes and went to work. I honed my TI and Hart to as good as they have ever been and they shaved quite nicely. (The TI I have has been a handful for the 5 years I've had it; the blade does not lay perfectly flat when edge and spine are laid on a flat surface.) Tonight's method:
Lapped 1k, 5k, 8k and 12k lightly
1 Layer tape
X strokes on 1k till mowing hairs
Change tape
10-15 passes on the 5 k till popping hairs and looking good in the loupe
10-15 passes on the 8k
Change tape
10-15 passes on the 8k with most of the water wiped off
10-15 passes on the 12k
Strop and shave!

This is not very extraordinary, I know, but it was different for me because I attempted to take all your good advice and use it in one session. In the past I have used bits and pieces of your advice, as gleaned from posts and videos, but had to make several attempts because it wasn't all put together. The things that helped me the most tonight:
-Fewer strokes and more inspections with the loupe.
-Did away with the circles. I only tried those the past couple of times, and I just can't manage to control the blade as well when I do them.
-Slower speed. Too often in a hurry to get my dull razor shaving.
-The slower speed allowed better pressure control, especially on my cupped razor.
-Made sure the razor was popping hairs off the 1k before moving on. This took a couple of sets of passes and inspections
-Used less water on the stone. The razor seemed to float less, stick better, and I could see the beads of water rolling better, like someone advised watching in an above post.

Thanks again for your help and encouragement!
Justin

Justin,

This sounds like a good thing!

Personally I find honing in general ‘relaxing and fulfilling’! For myself, if I’m tired, frustrated or generally not in the correct frame of mind to hone, I don’t do it! I have other razors that I can use!!!

If I’m not in the mood to enjoy the honing, as I said, I just say f’ it I’ll get to it later!!!

Pick your battles! Know when to retreat and re-group!! You will conquer and overcome!!

In a long process with several stages, it can be useful to know what exactly is going on at each stage. Plenty of folks have had reasonable success with running through the whole thing and hoping it works, but my feeling is that it is far better to know what you've just done before you move to the next step. You can botch an edge at nearly any step, and for most people who have otherwise decent or consistent technique, the degradation of the edge likely happens in the same places.

Have you ever been with someone that knew how to hone and done it in front of you? When I started honing I did ok but the turning point, for me, was actually seeing and hearing someone hone a razor. There is nothing like it. If you can search out someone and spend an afternoon with him. You will learn more than you can believe. Just remember though that you are going to adapt what you see to your style and feel. Everyone is a little different but you will learn what to look for when honing. I have never found a razor that has been honed by someone else that I have been able to "hone over". I have always had to drop back and start over at the bevel to get a razor to behave. Honing can be a very personal thing but the basics are the foundation on which you build the house.

Take care,
Richard