Honing problems

Hi guys, newbie to the forum and fairly new to straight shaving. Have been using a cheap shavette since xmas and although at times i have cut my face to pieces, it gives such a close shave it is unreal. Love it!

The problem is this - i recently bought two new dovo razors. They were nowhere near as sharp as the DE blades i use in my shavette, so i sent them off to a professional sharpener (shall remain nameless for now).

Had my first shave with one the other day - it started off okay, not awesomely sharp but okay.on the second pass, against the grain, it would not take any more hair off. The other wouldnt do much better. Had to put a lot of pressure on the blade to get it to cut against the grain.

I leave my moustache to last, i mean literally dont touch it till last, and at that point the straight wasnt even cutting any hair at all.

My shavette finished the job nicely though.

I am a bit disheartened, as i have spent over £300 on the new razors, a strop, and getting them sharpened. Are DE blades usually sharper than a freshly honed straight? Or is something amiss?

My prep consists of a hot shower, pre shave oil, lots of lather made from cream from decent companies, applied with a badger hair brush. Never had problems using these with the shavette.

I am pretty sure its the razors not being sharp but can anyone add their two pennies worth?

Any help appreciated.

Btw I am in London and North West england if anyone can recommend anyone to help out.

Ta guys.

Trenchy

I don't know what to say regarding your razors, because I've not seen them or honed them, but you shouldn't try to compare a DE shavette blade to a straight razor edge, because they are completely different animals, and there's an huge technical difference in using the two to achieve a quality shave, It could come down to did you strop the razor before you shaved and if so did you cause the edge to fail? there are a number of small technical details you may have to look at, I know that if I hone a razor for someone starting out I would have stropped the razor ready to go, and I will tell the person who will be using the razor to just shave with the razor and do not strop the razor on the first shave, so if he strops the razor on his second shave and loses the edge you probably know what's happened.

Jamie.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I don't know what to say regarding your razors, because I've not seen them or honed them, but you shouldn't try to compare a DE shavette blade to a straight razor edge, because they are completely different animals, and there's an huge technical difference in using the two to achieve a quality shave, It could come down to did you strop the razor before you shaved and if so did you cause the edge to fail? there are a number of small technical details you may have to look at, I know that if I hone a razor for someone starting out I would have stropped the razor ready to go, and I will tell the person who will be using the razor to just shave with the razor and do not strop the razor on the first shave, so if he strops the razor on his second shave and loses the edge you probably know what's happened.

Jamie.

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Thanks Jamie.

I did not strop the razor. However, I am unsure if it was stropped with the company i sent it to.

Would you mind briefly summing up the differences between DE blades and straights please? I'd love to know.

Trenchy

Have a look at this post, http://www.theshavingroom.co.uk/forum/thread-18304.html
Talk me into a straight

Jamie

Thanks Jamie.

I guess i need to get in touch with the people that sharpened my straights then.

James

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Originally Posted by trenchy

Thanks Jamie.

I guess i need to get in touch with the people that sharpened my straights then.

James

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Definitely,
they are the ones that know your razors and should be able to guide you with the blades.
You said "company", are they specialized in razor honing or are they a knife sharpening shop that does razors on the side (please do not name names just general info).

I have shaved with DE razors, Shavettes, and Straights over the course my life time. I have noticed a great difference in the sharpness and quality of the different shaves. Seeing a DE and a Shavette take the same type of blade you basicly get the same save out of them. I find that you can nick yourself more quickly with a Shavette than a Straight. I believe it is the geometry of the bevel that makes the difference here. Honing and shaving with a Straight is more forgiving to me than a Shavette or even a DE. Also gives a more comfortable and enjoyable shaving experiance...

Another thing to think about is that with a traditional SR you need different angles then with a shavette.

My guess is that you are using a pretty steep angle from the time you spent shaving with a shavette. With a shavette or even a near wedge TSR you can get away with that steep angle but with a full or half hollow blade you can't the blade simple will skip over hair or come to a dead stop.

Try adjusting your angle start with the spine of the razor only about a half a spine width from your skin and keep adjusting it till you are cutting hair cleanly.

The other thing to remember the size of a TSR is much greater then the size of the shavette. So some methods you developed with the shavette won't work because you won't be able to fit the TSR into those same areas. One of the places you will most likely have to adjust for is the mustache area.

Guys, this is awesome. Thanks especially to castel33 - I had not thought of this.

Officerdread, I totally agree with you - I cut myself so much more easily on a shavette than with a straight. I personally think that this is because the corner of the DE blade sticks out and can nick you easily, whereas my straights have a round point.

Will have a go over the weekend experimenting with angles and will let you know how i get on.

Ta all,

The trench

Oh and mainaman, they do sharpen knives, but it seems to me like their main focus is straights. The sell vintage razors and do a rebuilding service too.

OK guys, so I called the pro honer. He said that i should not expect that much performance from my straights in the first place. He also said that I may need to strop mid shave. Before I bought the straights i was told every 5 or so shaves - what happens with you guys?

Ta all

Sounds like you got a bad honer. You should strop before every shave at the very least. Most guys do it before and after every shave. I have never had a pro honer tell me or seen any of them on here say that you will need to strop mid shave and that I should expect good performance from a straight.

Ok guys, thanks. Out of interest, can anyone recomend a good hoer in the uk

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Originally Posted by trenchy

OK guys, so I called the pro honer. He said that i should not expect that much performance from my straights in the first place. He also said that I may need to strop mid shave. Before I bought the straights i was told every 5 or so shaves - what happens with you guys?

Ta all

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I do not think he is a pro, and probably not even a honer.
A razor is stropped before the shave and should be able to go full shave with no extra stropping. If you have tyo strop mid shave that means the razor is not shave ready

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Originally Posted by trenchy

Ok guys, thanks. Out of interest, can anyone recomend a good hoer in the uk

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Niel Miller is located in UK and hones professionally.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Niel Miller is located in UK and hones professionally.

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Is he any good?

So if I have to strop a straight before every shave then that is normal?

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Originally Posted by trenchy

Is he any good?

So if I have to strop a straight before every shave then that is normal?

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Neil is a top notch honer, no worries there!

Yes, stropping before each shave, and/or after, will keep your edges smooth and lasting

Trenchy, I'm based in the UK and have a couple of questions:

If you have bothered to do any research at all how come you need to ask these basic questions? Send me a pm and I will try and advise on the person who sold you the razor - it's a fairly small community in the UK so I'm pretty sure we will know if it's a rogue trader. Just on reading your comment that he advised stropping mid-shave raises big doubts that he knows what he is talking about.

One of the first posts here was from Jamie (Celtic Crusader) who gave you some good advice - maybe you should consider sending him a PM as well.

Thanks all. Much appreciated is all the help

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Originally Posted by trenchy

So if I have to strop a straight before every shave then that is normal?

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Yes, every time. I do 40 laps on the linen side then rub my palm briskly on the leather to warm and oil it then strop 60 laps on the leather... Good luck. Hope you get it shave ready from a reputable honer...

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Originally Posted by UKRob

One of the first posts here was from Jamie (Celtic Crusader) who gave you some good advice - maybe you should consider sending him a PM as well.

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+1 I was going to type the exact same thing

Ok guys, so I just thought I would let you know I just had the best shave of my life. Stropped before shaving, I then stropped between first and second passes, and then again before moustache. No sure if the extra stropping was necessary, but better safe than sorry I thought. I also changed the angle of attack, which was tricky, but helped massively. The end result was not quite as close as when I use my shavette, but I am sure this will come with practice. However, there is no irritatoin - never had that before. Love it!

Just wanted to say thanks to you all.

Glad you had a good shave, but like the others said, you shouldn't really have to strop so much, just once before, that's all. I would probably consider sending the razor to Neil Miller or someone else who is know to be a reputable honer so that you will know whether this stropping is necessary or not. I bet it just is not sharp enough.

Daniel

If the only thing you did was strop it a whole bunch, then you still have an eye opening experience ahead of you when someone actually sharpens that razor.

A prolem I'm having is that I can't seem to get my dovo 5/8 best or my geneva 6/8 ontario as sharp as my genco 5/8 fluid steel(especially the ontario).

I'm a bit confused. Stropping won't make a bad edge a good edge - there has to be the foundation there to begin with or else stropping will never help.

I'm not saying your honer is either good or bad - I'm just saying that before we all jump to conclusions about the edge we should perhaps have more data. No offence to the OP, but I've seen many good honer's reputations impugned when in fact it is the (often new) shaver's technique on both strop and face that was the culprit.

I also do not see why a recommendation that someone strop between passes is an indicator of a poor honer. I've seen that advice given here many times over the years.

Again, I am not defending the honer. I'm simply saying the data upon which we are determining a reputation is thin to say the least. I think we can do better than that.

James.

Sorry but how can an edge possibly be expected to only last for one pass until needing to be re-stropped? This goes against everything I have read in the forums, watched on videos etc. Never heard this before and I have to say I would be pretty annoyed if I had to strop a razor that much just to use it, it seems pointless. Get it sharpened properly.

+1. A bad edge whether it is dull, foiled or bad temper will not come back to sharp with just a stropping.

For my part: I wasn't saying anything about the honer or his skill. I just don't think the razor is sharp. The reasons a professionally honed razor is not performing properly are too many to list at one time. The most likely culprit is usually the operator. But the operator didn't take anyone's advice, then said thanks at the end. So, who knows? lol.

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Originally Posted by Kefka

Sorry but how can an edge possibly be expected to only last for one pass until needing to be re-stropped? This goes against everything I have read in the forums, watched on videos etc. Never heard this before and I have to say I would be pretty annoyed if I had to strop a razor that much just to use it, it seems pointless. Get it sharpened properly.

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Well, many things contribute to the longevity of the edge, and many of those things take on a sharper aspect in the hands of a new shaver. Shave angle, for example. Beard prep and type, stropping technique etc etc. These kinds of things can contribute to temporary or permanent premature edge dulling IME. Of course, if the culprit is stropping technique then restropping between passes will simply exacerbate the issue.

And as I said before, it is not unheard of for people to strop between passes. Its not common by any means, but not unheard of either.

Of course, it could be that the edge was not honed correctly but all we have to go on is the OP's description of the problem and it seems as though their edge is giving them a shave they are content with at the moment. Perhaps they are putting up with a sub-par shave, but in the light of present information all we can really say is good luck and happy shaving! :)

James.

I guess you are right, too many things which could be going wrong and not enough info to guess.

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

For my part: I wasn't saying anything about the honer or his skill. I just don't think the razor is sharp. The reasons a professionally honed razor is not performing properly are too many to list at one time. The most likely culprit is usually the operator. But the operator didn't take anyone's advice, then said thanks at the end. So, who knows? lol.

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I did take advice - can't remember who it was, but someone said to change the angle of the razor on my skin. That did the trick, and i posted that it did. I am treating this like an experiment, in that I have two razors both honed by this company. I have now had two satisfactory shaves from one razor, and will send this off to another member on here who has promised to hone it for me so I can see the difference You never know, the newly honed razor might give me an even better shave, but then it might not, in which case i need to practice my technique.

Thanks to all that have posted and helped out sorting the problem. It is really appreciated.

My bad. You did mention a change of angle. I just missed it somehow.

Hi guys. One more update. Just had the new best shave of my life. One of the members here, (shall remain nameless for now, dont want people hounding him) told me to send him ne of my razors for him to hone. He did so for free, and i just had a shave with it, and it was awesome. I will say that part of it feels like its my technique getting better, but most of it was down to having a sharp blade. Thanks especially to him, and thanks to everyone that has commented. xx

The Trench